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tomsredstratos
09-09-2012, 10:25
Has anyone seen this before? Looks like they have been busy.

http://www.carteroni.co.nz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8&Itemid=15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2e-Usyg88OY

Tom.

ProtoTipo
09-09-2012, 11:02
I wish you hadn't shown me that Tom.

Cadami
09-09-2012, 13:08
Perfect.......Right hand drive too!

peteracs
09-09-2012, 15:33
Looks like they have made a lot of progress since I saw it mentioned last year/early this, nice to see they're serious about supplying kits, so who is on the lookout for a monte now...? Trouble is they tend to go for over £4k now, but I guess you could part it out to get some money back on it.

Peter

tipo158
09-09-2012, 16:45
Totally awesome, I now also own a US model, a Lancia Scorpion, actually #20 in the production order. One magazine called it a watch pocket Stratos.

peteracs
09-09-2012, 16:54
Ah yes, but would you want to butcher it to have a 037 replica?

Maybe there is a market for Criag et al to produce an 037 version of their chassis.......

Peter

tipo158
09-09-2012, 20:12
Ah yes, but would you want to butcher it to have a 037 replica?

Maybe there is a market for Criag et al to produce an 037 version of their chassis.......

Peter

Not #20, it is still fairly rust free, which is unusual for this part of the world. If I found a "parts" car, now that would be a different story.

peteracs
09-09-2012, 21:38
Not #20, it is still fairly rust free, which is unusual for this part of the world. If I found a "parts" car, now that would be a different story.

That is I suspect the problem now as there are likely to be few of them left as parts cars, and any with the chassis ok, will be used as restores and priced highly as such.

That is why having a solution such as the Stratos replicas may make sense, rather than starting with a an old chassis.

Peter

Fingers
10-09-2012, 01:06
That's funny, I just received an email from them (on their mailing list) with the youtube link above. I'm looking forward to seeing it in the metal...and glass.

ProtoTipo
10-09-2012, 08:43
That is I suspect the problem now as there are likely to be few of them left as parts cars, and any with the chassis ok, will be used as restores and priced highly as such.
Peter

There's such a minimum of the original Monte tub left for a proper 037 conversion Peter. Whatever rust is left in the very small tub wouldn't be much to tackle?
For example; every 'new' group 4 Escort shell built these days, nearly always needs a small amount of restoration before any fabrication begins, and there's a lot more shell to restore.

peteracs
10-09-2012, 10:37
There's such a minimum of the original Monte tub left for a proper 037 conversion Peter. Whatever rust is left in the very small tub wouldn't be much to tackle?
For example; every 'new' group 4 Escort shell built these days, nearly always needs a small amount of restoration before any fabrication begins, and there's a lot more shell to restore.

There is that and the work would be fairly small compared to full restore, however I suspect in the UK at least, there are likely to be few available in this state, hence from a future point of view, having a new centre secion fabricated like the current Stratos replicas I would have thought makes sense, though I have no knowledge of what is involved as to how practical it would be.

Peter

ProtoTipo
10-09-2012, 12:42
I think there are enough rusty ones still out there, and I think most potential owners would want an 037 replica based on the factory steel centre tub? Well I would?
I'd rather have had a Stratos rep with a steel tub too, but that's much more difficult and expensive than a Monte based car.

What about a spaceframe that has versions to accept both Monte steel tub or a fibreglass one?

ProtoTipo
10-09-2012, 12:47
In theory, I'd break this to make one.
Cheap Monte (http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C330954)
You could sell all the stuff that you won't need.

I must not buy a project I must not buy a project I must not buy a project I must not buy a project I must not buy a project I must not buy a project I must not buy a project I must not buy a project I must not buy a project

strat24v
10-09-2012, 13:09
Original 037's were based on Monte spider centre tubs. Very nice as that one is, its a long way away. One of the Forum members HERE makes an exact 037 replica. I have hi res chassis/tub pics but unfortunately not on this pc, on my old one. Was very tempted but I have too many unfinished projects that'll probably take me the rest of my days to finish!

ProtoTipo
10-09-2012, 15:36
Original 037's were based on Monte spider centre tubs.

Is that because of the bubble roof, John?

For any replica, it has to be a steel tub at the very least? Don't you think?

strat24v
10-09-2012, 15:46
Bubbles is correct, plain to see, both bits raised quite a bit. As for a steel centre tub then yes, it would have to be along with the correct tubular structures front and rear and also, for me, the correct uprights. Didn't know this originally but the front tube structure isnt linked into the roll cage at all, personally id want it linking correctly to the rest of the cage. I have drawings for the tube structures somewhere?

The Peter Collins book on the 037 is worth a read, plenty of info and stacks of colour pics.

tipo158
10-09-2012, 15:58
Recently a "parts car" Lancia Scorpion was sold for $1700, it really wasn't a parts car as I purchased it form the guy who bought it for a parts car and saw that it was much more than that. He was not the guy who glued the new carpet on top of the old one, that was the guy he bought the car from. With only 1803 US modeld made, it might be hard, but not impossible to find a real "parts car". I've started my search.

tipo158
10-09-2012, 16:02
About the recreation closeness. A friend of mine has a rally team, the father of one of his mechanics worked on the Lancia teams that used Stratos and 037s, he reviewed the web site and comment how close to original the recreation looked.

Paul
10-09-2012, 17:53
Threads like this are dangerous in terms of the amount of daydreaming they create!!

A quick search turned this up just 5 miles from my new work location:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/3251138041.html

strat24v
10-09-2012, 19:10
I thought the best bet was a basket case rusty one. The bits that get cut off are usually whats replaced. So long as the screen pillars and roof bits are something like. As far as the mechanicals go, they arent worth a deal so why bother?

Guy Mayers
10-09-2012, 19:32
Here's a decent Spider in the UK but provisionally sold.... Might not be too late though!

http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5301.0

Personally I think that an 037 replica should be done with a Monte Carlo tub as a starting point! I do regret getting rid of the tub I had bit it wasn't practical to store it forever.... Prices for an original 037 make a replica feasible now, back when I considered it the cost of the kit built exceeded the cost of a Stradale 037 so it just didn't make any sense. Unfortunately I didn't have the spare cash for the Stradale at the time! I wonder how much it would cost to import?

At Rally Legends 2010 we visited a workshop where there were many cars being prepped. They also had spare subframes lying about.... Don;t know if they were available for sale though.

Guy

strat24v
10-09-2012, 20:03
You can get an original spec car, tub supplied by yourself, for not a deal more than a Hawk kit.

tipo158
11-09-2012, 15:45
I paid $2450 for my Scorpion just about a month ago, I will admit that I got a great deal. I know of a total basket case that the guy wants $3000 for, I think it is worth more like $500 for it's condition, plus it doesn't have a current title, and there is a big hole where the floor board used to be.

That one that Paul showed, stated it needed the front brakes rebuilt, more likely it needs the master cylinder replaced, I had to do that on mine, after replacing the front calipers didn't solve the problem.

tipo158
13-09-2012, 16:40
OOOPPPSSSS how did that happen. Well yesterday I commited to purchase another Scorpion, listed as a parts car. I have all the pieces missing except the radiator. I purchased the car as a parts car, but one of the residuals is that I will also have a steel center section needed to create a 037 replica.

tipo158
04-10-2012, 15:48
I've been in corresponance with these guys, they tell me that they had access to a real 037 to create their kit. He loved that fact that I was building a Stratos, he said their was a Startos at the same place where the 037 was that they used.

Allora#2
04-01-2013, 21:12
Hi,
someone knows from which car is the (light with turn signal) on the 037 ???

Allora#2
07-01-2013, 12:48
i found it it's Renault 4 from 82 and made by VALEO :)

ProtoTipo
07-01-2013, 13:23
i found it it's Renault 4 from 82 and made by VALEO :)

I've got R4 headlamps!

'Just realised that the 037 uses a lot more of the tub floor of a Monte than I first thought, and the originals have proper 'seagull' welding too.

Allora#2
10-01-2013, 17:52
and now i have purchased an Lancia Montecarlo, i have some Abarth parts,
i have ordered the 037 kit in Italy, the light with turn signal also.
and here the pictures like the way we will go!

tipo158
10-01-2013, 18:15
That looks great, very similar to what the guys in New Zealand are doing. They are using a Gamma gearbox for their re-creations. For me it is about the same shipping cost whether I ship from Italy or New Zealand since I live on the west coast of the USA.

ProtoTipo
12-01-2013, 10:18
Hi Enzo,

You can buy the correct type of gearbox off the shelf:
ZF (http://www.race.fi/media/qbe62g_1.jpg)

Only £9582.00 !

ProtoTipo
12-01-2013, 10:41
Is this more like it?

G50 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PORSCHE-911-3-2-G50-GEAR-BOX-/271135534106?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3f20efec1a)
UN1 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RENAULT-UN-1-16-LOTUS-FORD-KITCAR-GEARBOX-/121047935732?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D4819423733753956457%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D121047935732%26)

Allora#2
12-01-2013, 11:33
Hi Chris,

the un gearbox from Renault 21/25 are good! Lambo kit car use them,
but i will use a VW Porsche 914/6 gearbox! if i found a good one!
we will see.

Enzo

ProtoTipo
12-01-2013, 11:52
Hi Chris,

the un gearbox from Renault 21/25 are good! Lambo kit car use them,
but i will use a VW Porsche 914/6 gearbox! if i found a good one!
we will see.

Enzo

Well, that's a good 'old school' gearbox?, and a proper mid engined one too? Rather than a rear engined one fitted upside down.

What engine are you going to use? A Lancia 8v VX would be the most appropriate on a budget?

Strat Fan
12-01-2013, 12:44
I would stay steer clear of the Renault version, they were used for years in the kit industry because it was the only cheap available transaxle, suitable for fitting to Rover V8's but no more & have a poor gear change. The output drive flanges are low when fitted in a mid engined installation so expect to see drive shafts running uphill.
Porsche G50 variant is the most robust transaxle which is suitable for big power/torque applications, suitable for American V8 installations, the gear shift is positive & smooth. Gear linkage for a centre change is more interesting unless you do a cable conversion. Inverting the gearbox actually helps the driveshaft angle for the mid engine applications. The big down side is price, a stock 5 speed G50 used to be about £1500, now they are £3000 (Blame Ultima as they created a demand for the used boxes), A stock G50 doesn't have an LSD either so factor another £750 for a Quaife TB diff which do work very well. G50/50's are the best but they are like hens teeth, the later 6 speeds are very long & stick out of the back of the car along way (gear selector is the rear most item).
The best alternative these days is Audi, good solid transaxles which are capable of taking the torque of the modern TDI motors. Under £500 should find you a decent one. The only down side will be the output flange height, because the gearbox is installed the correct way round the output flanges will be 75mm below crank height.
Porsche 914/6 ok if you can find one & suitable for VX power.

Allora#2
12-01-2013, 13:22
i think someone of you know this engine! this it will be.
and here is a picture with 914/6 Gearbox, but i am open to all
suggestions we will see,
Craig you are right the price for Porsche G50 box is likely to expensive
i read in www. about the audi A4/6 gearbox also an solution.

Enzo

ProtoTipo
12-01-2013, 22:22
The best alternative these days is Audi,

Craig,
Wouldn't that be too ironic?
The 037's arch rival.

ProtoTipo
12-01-2013, 22:23
i think someone of you know this engine!


That engine?!
It will be good to make use of it.

mudhut
13-01-2013, 17:03
I do wish you lot "in the know" wouldn't talk in riddles. Is this engine the VX unit that Andrew Taylor had in his car?

john
13-01-2013, 18:52
Or the one out of the Prototipo?

Allora#2
13-01-2013, 19:02
Or the one out of the Prototipo?


I do wish you lot "in the know" wouldn't talk in riddles. Is this engine the VX unit that Andrew Taylor had in his car?

Hi Guys, you do not know that my car was ex Taylor !

Strat Fan
14-01-2013, 07:43
Wouldn't that be too ironic?
The 037's arch rival.

Sorry Chris,

Sorry, no irony intended, I was just looking at the best value/reliable box to do the job.
Gearbox source is less identifiable than an engine so we might just get away with it, I think? We wouldn't want Enzo to get barred from any Italian car meets on the source of his gearbox now would we!

ProtoTipo
14-01-2013, 09:37
Sorry Chris,

Sorry, no irony intended, I was just looking at the best value/reliable box to do the job.
Gearbox source is less identifiable than an engine so we might just get away with it, I think? We wouldn't want Enzo to get barred from any Italian car meets on the source of his gearbox now would we!

As long as you didn't own up?!
It would be a good gearbox, I'm sure.

ProtoTipo
14-01-2013, 09:39
Or the one out of the Prototipo?

John, you can see it's being craned out of an Allora?!

ProtoTipo
14-01-2013, 09:41
I do wish you lot "in the know" wouldn't talk in riddles. Is this engine the VX unit that Andrew Taylor had in his car?

Yes Peter, as Enzo has reminded us, but I'd not forgotten. Even though it's white, V6, and group 4 now.

ProtoTipo
14-01-2013, 09:46
The 037 rep that Enzo has posted a photo of is interesting.
The originals did have twin rear shock absorbers per corner, but non of them were coilovers. Just a single spring in the middle, independent of the dampers.

tipo158
14-01-2013, 15:54
Wasn't there an Abarth version of the 037 with a V6?? I think they only made two of them.

Allora#2
16-01-2013, 17:34
Here it is it looks horrible but the transformation from Montecarlo to 037 can begin!
after 500 km to Amberg in Bavaria with top weather sunny and + 4° 500 km
back to Bergheim - 5° and 20 cm snow! crazy world normaly in Bavaria at this time are min 2 mtr snow!

Enzo :rolleyes:

ProtoTipo
16-01-2013, 18:20
Don't throw those group 4 arches away Enzo?
Canon Monte rally car (http://lh6.ggpht.com/carlitosog15/SNLdLPlXfeI/AAAAAAAAAdE/GuKEI9CBYHk/lanciabetamontecarlo-1[14].jpg)

ChrisCar6
16-01-2013, 18:40
Now, that really looks like an ebay special!

Allora#2
16-01-2013, 18:44
no Chris!
i will sold it, i know the parts are very rare the car is a Hörmann Montecarlo first owner
build by Hörmann in Kempten, and i have also the front spoilers left and right!
but i have never seen the pic from Canon Montecaro! maybe it helps to sale the parts! :)

Allora#2
16-01-2013, 18:56
Now, that really looks like an ebay special!

it was 10 years forgotten in a garage! and purchased by Mobile.de

here some more horrible pictures!

ProtoTipo
17-01-2013, 09:09
no Chris!
i will sold it, i know the parts are very rare the car is a Hörmann Montecarlo first owner
build by Hörmann in Kempten, and i have also the front spoilers left and right!
but i have never seen the pic from Canon Montecaro! maybe it helps to sale the parts! :)

Interesting?
I like the look of that, with the lowered suspension.
Do you know if those panels (spoilers and arches) still available?

Here is Stig driving one (http://www.kwa-kwa.pl/strona/images/stories/kwa-kwa/1979r/zagranica/rajdy/rajdowe-mistrzostwa-europy-kierowcow/1-10-rajd-janner-a-1-eliminacja-2/1-10-rajd-janner-a-1-eliminacja-2-1.jpg).

Allora#2
17-01-2013, 17:58
Do you know if those panels (spoilers and arches) still available?
Here is Stig driving one (http://www.kwa-kwa.pl/strona/images/stories/kwa-kwa/1979r/zagranica/rajdy/rajdowe-mistrzostwa-europy-kierowcow/1-10-rajd-janner-a-1-eliminacja-2/1-10-rajd-janner-a-1-eliminacja-2-1.jpg).

No i don't know!

bud someone knows where i can found this rear axle wheel hub from litton corse!
i will use them for my 037 project!
are they still available?
i found this pic on old forum side.

grazie Enzo

turbonutter
17-01-2013, 19:08
Not sure who supplies them for the corse, but I think Ultima use a similar one....

john
17-01-2013, 21:45
Gardner Douglas now supply the cast uprights.
There may be other alternative sources close by on here.......

Strat Fan
17-01-2013, 22:26
Enzo,
I can get you a quote possibly?
The uprights take a Ford Granada Scorpio Wheel bearing, 5 x 112mm pcd, 63.5mm centre bore.
Drop me a mail if you need any help.

Allora#2
18-01-2013, 14:43
Thanks Craig, mail is on the way!

and some news i saw our forum member Mick Covill do it also!
here some picture, but he is a little in advance like me!

tipo158
18-01-2013, 16:07
The New Zealand kit comes with a complete suspension.

strat24v
18-01-2013, 17:39
Better to optimise geometry and have some billet items machined instead of trying to adapt something from a different car. Price wouldnt be a great deal different, just a bit of CAD time. Iirc, the 037 rear upright be it straight from or copied in ally, came from an idler on an Iveco armoured car.

ProtoTipo
18-01-2013, 17:57
Enzo,

Just use the rear chassis and running gear off your 3.4t !

strat24v
18-01-2013, 18:05
Think if I was going to the trouble of building a replica 037, i'd do it right and copy all the uprights, otherwise I think the value would suffer, as has been seen before only a couple of years ago. Do it once and do it right.

Strat Fan
18-01-2013, 18:15
Someone here may be able to confirm if this upright, shown here on the back of a Delta S4 is the same as the one on the 037?
3667

There is a good set of S4 pics here (http://www.mat.fi/n_index.php?nav=gallery_view&gallery=project1986lanciadeltas4&g=13)

strat24v
18-01-2013, 18:39
Look the same to me. Think the early focus wrc used a modified version.

ProtoTipo
18-01-2013, 18:42
The 037 rally car I'm comparing Craig's S4 photo with, has wheels fitted, so it's hard to see the whole upright. What I can see of it, does look like a similar casting.

The chassis on the 037 doesn't look half as accomplished as the S4 one. Even down to little things like the anti droop cables. It's as if the 037 was a development hack for some elements of the S4? Obviously not the 4WD and turbo bit.

strat24v
18-01-2013, 18:45
It did become the develpment hack, even to the tune of 4wd and they did try Turbo's.

Allora#2
18-01-2013, 18:53
Here some pictures! 037 front and rear upright!

Strat Fan
18-01-2013, 20:43
All original style parts available from here (http://www.lancia037motorsport.com/category.php?id_category=1050&id_lang=1) if you have some deep pockets then.

strat24v
18-01-2013, 21:52
Similar price to Roberto's cast stratos uprights. Guess its the going rate.

ProtoTipo
19-01-2013, 11:53
It's funny? You could build a new 037, right down to the last little detail. It's possible.
It's a much longer shot, but you could even build a group 4 Stratos.

However, it's seen as if, you're 'crossing a line', by entering such a car in a Historic event. Even if you've managed to get hold of car on paper only (that is, the identity of a homologation run chassis number).
And yet, very few Twin Cam, RS1600 or RS1800 entered in UK historic rally events actually carry the ID of the homologation run cars that they are supposed to be based on. 'Far more likely that a Chevette, or Ascona would start life as one of the 400 off run.

Then you think, well, "is it ok to build a 131 Abarth replica? The difference here being that the bodyshell is modified almost to group 4 as standard, whereas the Escort group 4 modifications are all fabricated and added to the standard shell after factory production.

ProtoTipo
19-01-2013, 12:42
Some Stradale production photos:
One (http://www.retro-speed.co.uk/CMS-Images/m_4090001_Industrialisation%20and%20diversification%20were%20vital%20to%20Pinin%20This%20is%20the%20Lancia%20037%20production%20line%20in%201982.jpg)
Two (http://www.retro-speed.co.uk/CMS-Images/m_4090001_Lancia%20037%20line%20at%20PF.JPG)
Three (http://www.retro-speed.co.uk/CMS-Images/m_4090001_Lancia%20037%20Stradales%20at%20Pininfarina.JPG)

Guy Mayers
19-01-2013, 13:01
Very nice book on the 037 - expensive though! As the seller says, pages do stick together so if you get one, put it in the fridge for an hour or two in a plastic bag and that'll do the job!

Guy

ProtoTipo
19-01-2013, 18:48
Montes pretending
Red (http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C356443#)
Martini (http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C356444)

tomsredstratos
19-01-2013, 22:11
Video of the red car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vWoHEVpMaA

tomsredstratos
19-01-2013, 22:20
Website www.boldrinauto.it

Allora#2
30-01-2013, 19:40
Hi,
someone knows the part number "charger timing belt" from the VX engine with no power steering?
grazie Enzo

Guy Mayers
30-01-2013, 20:43
Does the old belt have a reference number on it? You could try counting the teeth? When I had a VX in my car I just measured the run the belt covered and went to a belt supplier called Fenner in Liverpool and they found one. Never needed to replace it.

http://www.fennerdrives.com

Guy

Sando
30-01-2013, 22:12
Yes agree I got the belt i used for the Vx to length from a local engineering / Gear supplier
Rob

Fingers
31-01-2013, 19:09
I know that Guy Croft uses a shorter belt on some of his VX engines, you could ask him. My VX coupe went really well after a few of his mods.

peteracs
01-02-2013, 10:11
Hi,
someone knows the part number "charger timing belt" from the VX engine with no power steering?
grazie Enzo

Hi Enzo

You could try the Beta Forum as some of the guys have the old parts books/fiche for the later Beta cars, I only have the earlier ones.

www.lanciabeta.co.uk

Peter

BAS
01-02-2013, 12:16
I'll see if I can get you the details from my belt. (Rob's original engine)

Guy Mayers
01-02-2013, 14:14
Hi Enzo

You could try the Beta Forum as some of the guys have the old parts books/fiche for the later Beta cars, I only have the earlier ones.

www.lanciabeta.co.uk (http://www.lanciabeta.co.uk)

Peter

They won't be able to help Peter, All Lancia Volumex Coupes, HPEs and Trevi Volumexes left the factory with power steering. Also, the shape of the inner wing precludes running a belt from the crank pulley direct to the supercharger, it has to follow an L shaped path from the crank pulley forward to the tensioner, up and over the supercharger drive cog, down to the power steering pump drive cog and back to the crank pulley.

I've never seen a Fiat 124 Volumex up close nor the Argenta VX to be able to describe the belt route but I'm pretty sure the 124 VX wouldn't have had power steering. However, with an upright installation the inlet manifold might be different?

Guy

Allora#2
01-02-2013, 14:50
that's correct all Beta VX and Trevi VX have power steering!
Fiat Argenta Volumex also.
but Fiat 124 Volumex and 131 Volumex not!
i think i take the measurement a go to an supplier!

Enzo :rolleyes:

Guy Mayers
01-02-2013, 14:59
Sounds like an excellent plan Enzo - when you find one that fits remember to buy a spare (or two!) It might be worth checking how the 124 and 131 VXs managed to keep the belts from flying off, there's no end fences on the crank or supercharger pulley but there is one on the power steering pump. Incidentally, if you have a spare power steering pulley you can machine the centre out so that it slips over the crankshaft pulley, tack it in place and you've instantly geared the supercharger up by 10- 15% and more power!

Guy

Guy

mudhut
03-02-2013, 13:24
You can get this belt from Guy Croft here (http://www.guy-croft.co.uk/page2.html) assuming it's a 1" belt.

But the same text is easier to read here (http://www.guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2997)

Allora#2
11-02-2013, 14:43
Thanks Peter,

the first parts are purchased!
and the glass fibre parts come this week from italy!

Enzo

Allora#2
13-02-2013, 20:03
here is lying a half 037!

Sando
14-02-2013, 12:58
Love to see proper P7 tread pattern.:cool:
Regarding Vx belt and run out, I used a tensioner wheel with offset centre and importantly had edges on to keep belt in line and on both pulleys.... I think.. it may have been Sierra Cosworth Cam belt tensioner.
Rob



Edit -found a picture

thomas
08-03-2013, 21:43
Hi,

All the best with this project. Looks very promising.

Cheers

Allora#2
08-03-2013, 21:53
Thank's Thomas,

first parts testet to fit! and i am surprised about the accuracy of fit
but it will be a long way. :)

thomas
08-03-2013, 21:58
Anxious to know how difficult it will actually be to build, since this is a kitcar on a whole different level.

The 037 is still my (never to come true) dream car.

Allora#2
13-03-2013, 16:04
now i have mounted at the bonnet the air inlet ducts, rear spoiler and license plate light, and all fits very well! :)

thomas
13-03-2013, 18:41
Keep it coming, Enzo.

I'm sure the car will look great in the end.

Allora#2
20-03-2013, 18:28
i have completed the front and some lights are arrived! :)

Allora#2
13-06-2013, 21:17
i'll be back
with the first day at the body work! :)

if someone are interested i post the progress here! :confused:

Allora#2
13-06-2013, 21:23
some more pictures!

Cadami
13-06-2013, 21:42
Good to see the build develop Enzo..... It's the only car I'd consider swapping over to :-) Is it progressing full time now?

Guy Mayers
13-06-2013, 23:17
More please Enzo! Keep us up to date, love these threads!
Guy

ProtoTipo
14-06-2013, 08:12
Enzo,

'Way to get rid of rust!

Allora#2
17-06-2013, 21:24
Enzo,

'Way to get rid of rust!
yes Chris the best way is change all in glassfibre :o

i have replaced the steel roof into a glass fibre roof!
and take the measurement for the wheelbase.

Monte76
17-06-2013, 21:31
Superb, keep the updates coming, always loved the 037.

Vince.

Allora#2
19-06-2013, 21:39
OK Vince, here some progress ;)
and now i know why the chisel has a guardian who is but over 10 years in the workbench
Ouch! on the hand with the hammer ​​even 3 times! :p

Allora#2
21-06-2013, 15:11
Lancia 037 (SWB) short wheel base
and wood floor like a Morgan +8 :)

peteracs
21-06-2013, 16:18
Particularly like the wheels and the wooden suspension arrangement, makes for easy parking I guess.....

Peter

strat24v
21-06-2013, 16:27
I was a little concerned about the wheel diameter and available tyre choice but seen as it levitates, I don't think thats really an issue. Also, seen as the wheels don't actually contact the road surface, I wonder what the choice of powerplant maybe? Perhaps a phase shifting Turbo Encabulator?? Come on Enzo, enquiring minds need to know.....:cool:

Allora#2
21-06-2013, 21:25
the powerplant will be the same like Fred Flintstone! :o
barn find!
an original Montecarlo roll cage also rusty like the shell and all goes to sandblasting on monday!

ChrisC
22-06-2013, 10:42
Really interesting thread Enzo. Keep the photos coming.

Allora#2
25-06-2013, 15:05
some goodies are arrived from italy
the hood pins and the door, side and rear window!
thanks to Umberto from Cestra Racing Motorsport.
and some goodies from GB
the rod ends to build the rear axle
also thanks to McGill Motorsports

Allora#2
26-09-2013, 13:48
now the 037 shell is back from sandblasting,
and we can start the welding orgies!

Piers037
14-02-2014, 10:59
Nice work Enzo.

I thought you might be interested in a few photos of my 037 project.

Cheers

Piers

60916092


6090

Allora#2
14-02-2014, 11:21
Ciao Piers,
yes i am very interested in a few photos of your 037 project.
my is still standing, at the moment a work on my 131 Abarth
to modified some parts.
please post more of the progress on your 037!
if i start, i post also the progress here.

Enzo

The Slug
14-02-2014, 13:39
Ciao Piers,
yes i am very interested in a few photos of your 037 project.
my is still standing, at the moment a work on my 131 Abarth
to modified some parts.
please post more of the progress on your 037!
if i start, i post also the progress here.

Enzo

Post your pics in the Gallery section and make a new album for them, you can add note to the pics now as well as tag them to make it easier to search for etc.
Well worth a new album, or put in "My Garage" area

Allora#2
04-11-2016, 16:23
Some progress!

Allora#2
04-11-2016, 18:05
more welding orgies!

LM mic
04-11-2016, 18:35
Start indeed to look better now with all your nice work ! Bravo :o

Guy Mayers
07-12-2016, 19:05
Given Up Enzo?:(

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Lancia-037-Project-/282281884498?hash=item41b94fbb52:g:MHAAAOSw4GVYRs9Z

Guy

Allora#2
08-12-2016, 09:56
Given Up Enzo?:(

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Lancia-037-Project-/282281884498?hash=item41b94fbb52:g:MHAAAOSw4GVYRs9Z

Guy

No Guy,
but i bought this! :p
and i have to many cars! and no storage,
so the 037 and the Beta Volumex will go.
i'll take it at 15.01.2017 and post some pictures.

Bernard
08-12-2016, 12:02
No Guy,
but i bought this! :p
and i have to many cars! and no storage,
so the 037 and the Beta Volumex will go.
i'll take it at 15.01.2017 and post some pictures.

YOU REALLY DO KNOW HOW TO MAKE US JEALOUS ENZO !!........ REALLY LIKE IT IN YELLOW !

pim
08-12-2016, 16:17
Thats a shame Enzo, i was following youre build as an example for mine. But Countach looking very good, is it real or recreation?

Hope you guys don't mind if i post some updates here now and then about the build of my 037 recreation?

I almost have all the Montecarlo parts i need for my build, just waiting for the X 1/9 lock barrel to try in the Monte door handle.

Also ordered, and made a downpayment, for a front sub frame and front suspension parts from Mick Covill at Rallylegendreplica's.

bosmass
08-12-2016, 17:25
please do!

Allora#2
09-12-2016, 21:50
Thats a shame Enzo, i was following youre build as an example for mine. But Countach looking very good, is it real or recreation?

Hope you guys don't mind if i post some updates here now and then about the build of my 037 recreation?

I almost have all the Montecarlo parts i need for my build, just waiting for the X 1/9 lock barrel to try in the Monte door handle.

Also ordered, and made a downpayment, for a front sub frame and front suspension parts from Mick Covill at Rallylegendreplica's.

Ciao Pim,

There is a recreation built in 1994 with the right dimensions like the original!
tube frame and some original parts.

yes post pictures from progress here!

saluti Enzo

Stratie.fr
11-12-2016, 12:46
Ciao Enzo

It's a pity that I didn't know before you sold your nice 037 recreation kit ... which it interested me for joining my both "Lancia rally" cars!

Countach is really looking gorgeous! Congrats for your new toy!! :)
Is it one Prova rebuild? Which engine? Seen same one in yellow paint for sale here few months ago!
I think you will enjoy a lot with it!

Allora#2
21-12-2016, 13:32
The project 037!

Not enough time to finish it.
I should have finished it immediately,
When I started in 2013.

Here the last pictures tomorrow he goes away.

When I see this, I see it's sad didn't finished the project! :(

bosmass
21-12-2016, 16:42
So did you have a hard time finding support for the 037 work, unlike the stratos which has this excellent forum? Just curious as it is a project which I find pretty cool.

Stratie.fr
21-12-2016, 17:19
The project 037!

Not enough time to finish it.
I should have finished it immediately,
When I started in 2013.

Here the last pictures tomorrow he goes away.

When I see this, I see it's sad didn't finished the project! :(

Ciao Enzo

As I see your very nice 037 kit on your pics , I can understand your feeling to unfinish it and your sadness to sell it!
For sure it's a pity! I hope the new owner ( maybe someone from SEC?) will appreciate the good deal he done and will have enough Time and interest to complete the 037!
Still sorry to know that too late because I would have a lot interest to build or to buy one 037 recreation like yours!
I think your sad feelings leave you when you got the Countach in your garage!! ;)

I migliori auguri a voi e buon Natale
saluti Federico

LM mic
22-12-2016, 08:42
Enzo ; you did an important work collecting all these rare parts !!! Congrats
Day of sale was surely very hard for you !!!
There some site that could be inspiration for you ???
http://www.vaisonsport.com/rallhistorique.html
10682

Frederic You know them I guess ??

pim
22-12-2016, 09:07
Hi Enzo, good luck with the sale.
Looking at the wheels you have, Canonica, i just seen these on Petrolicious: http://petrolicious.com/just-because-a-lancia-037-tearing-up-monza-is-a-beautiful-thing
Look a bit different, but i like them.
Anyone know what make or type?

Stratie.fr
22-12-2016, 10:19
Enzo ; you did an important work collecting all these rare parts !!! Congrats
Day of sale was surely very hard for you !!!
There some site that could be inspiration for you ???
http://www.vaisonsport.com/rallhistorique.html
10682

Frederic You know them I guess ??


Yes Michel I know Christophe Vaison and his team
they are actually the reference in 037 recreation after rebuilding one 037 group B with which they won many VHC races like Tour de Corse in 2014 and 2015!

In their team they prepared sometimes Stratos gp 4!

Now they sell another 037 recreation with HTP for historic rallies theirs recreations are better than real 037 one and less expensive

http://www.vaisonsport.com/ventes.php


For Sale Lancia 037 evo 2 with original documents.Car was fully rebuild and tune by Vaison sport(FR) to suit FIA regulation (rollcage). Car very performant and ready to race ( Winner of "tour de corse historique" 2014 and 2015). Can be sale with spare parts10686

LM mic
22-12-2016, 10:55
Pim
They are built like Gotti wheels ???? same type of center foundry edges , same type of spun rims ?

Could be bespoke serie from early Gotti production ??

pim
24-12-2016, 14:48
Found Gotti wheels that look like the Canonica. And found Roin technology with some wheels that look like above, these are Porsche wheels, but Roin can do any PCD as Gotti has fixed PCD.
10706

pim
24-12-2016, 14:51
Another problem almost solved, I was missing lock barrels in my door handles so i bought X 1/9 barrels to try and they fit although they are a bit longer at the back ( but that can be solved ).
Left is new X 1/9 barrel fitted and right is original handle with original barrel ( but no key ).
1070710708

ProtoTipo
31-12-2016, 12:08
Found Gotti wheels that look like the Canonica. And found Roin technology with some wheels that look like above, these are Porsche wheels, but Roin can do any PCD as Gotti has fixed PCD.

Some Gottis here:
https://www.gumtree.com/p/wheel-rims-tyres/gotti-c55-15-5x98-wheels-7x15-et35-rare-alfa-gtv6-polo-golf-bbs-rs-rm-oz-futura/1207490195

Allora#2
31-12-2016, 18:48
Hi Enzo, good luck with the sale.
Looking at the wheels you have, Canonica, i just seen these on Petrolicious: http://petrolicious.com/just-because-a-lancia-037-tearing-up-monza-is-a-beautiful-thing
Look a bit different, but i like them.
Anyone know what make or type?

Hi Pim, mine Canonica are from this Lancia Chardonnet 037 Andruet!

pim
03-01-2017, 19:48
OK next challenge: i have almost all lights except from the number plate light. They are not all the same on the existing cars but this one seems mostly used. Anyone an idea what car this comes from?

Lancialulu
03-01-2017, 22:06
Try Hella???

Allora#2
12-01-2017, 09:46
OK next challenge: i have almost all lights except from the number plate light. They are not all the same on the existing cars but this one seems mostly used. Anyone an idea what car this comes from?

4406529 COPPIA LUCI TARGA POSTERIORE FIAT DUCATO E VARIE

http://www.ebay.it/itm/4406529-PLASTICA-FANALE-LUCE-TARGA-PLATE-LIGHT-FIAT-DUCATO-E-VARIE-SIEM-/182144188515?hash=item2a68a3c063:g:g~UAAOSwNsdXQy5g

saluti Enzo :)

pim
12-01-2017, 19:42
4406529 COPPIA LUCI TARGA POSTERIORE FIAT DUCATO E VARIE

http://www.ebay.it/itm/4406529-PLASTICA-FANALE-LUCE-TARGA-PLATE-LIGHT-FIAT-DUCATO-E-VARIE-SIEM-/182144188515?hash=item2a68a3c063:g:g~UAAOSwNsdXQy5g

saluti Enzo :)

Hi Enzo, Thanks, just asked for postage, is 30 Euro's :( So now i know what to look for.

Where has your 037 gone to? Is there a possibility to get in touch with him/her to share build info??


Cheers,

Pim

Pim

pim
14-02-2017, 20:41
Ok ,

Some good news from Mick Covill ( Rally Legend Replica's ), He has just finished my front subframe including suspension and steering parts. Also had the doors made from fibreglass as that was the only body parts i was missing.
Probably will be collecting them soon, taking the ferry at Hull with my 900cc Fiat Panda ;)
Love to see the UK again, last time i was there with the Stratos at Stoneleigh, seems like ages ago.
Cheers,

Pim

pim
11-03-2017, 18:11
As the VX supercharger is a bit to small to get some more power i am going to try another supercharger that looks almost the same as the volumex: Toyota SC14 not common in Europe but in the States and Australia there seem to be some around.
Just got this one via E bay, they are a lot cheaper than the Eaton superchargers. Hope this will work.
Now looking for a 2 ltr ( or bigger ) 16 valve engine that has the looks of the Abarth 16valve from the 037. Has to have the intake on the left and exhaust on the right.
Here some pictures of my supercharger.
109801098110982

strat24v
13-03-2017, 11:42
Think the later small Mercedes convertible has a screw supercharger as standard, good for 1 bar boost.

Piers037
31-03-2017, 13:29
Now looking for a 2 ltr ( or bigger ) 16 valve engine that has the looks of the Abarth 16valve from the 037. Has to have the intake on the left and exhaust on the right.


I am going to use a 16V "Intergrale" head on my replica. It is possible to swap the cams 180 degrees. There is a guy in Spain who has done this modification on a Seat/Fiat RWD Rally car. If you look on the Guy Croft web site there is some information.

I will also make my own valve covers with Abarth cast into the top.

Cheers

Piers

ProtoTipo
31-03-2017, 15:14
Heads are manufactured, 10 minutes away from me:

pim
01-04-2017, 09:39
Heads are manufactured, 10 minutes away from me:

Which company is that, do they have a website? Any ideas on prices?

pim
01-04-2017, 09:40
Hi Piers,

Any progress with youre 037 project?

Pim


I am going to use a 16V "Intergrale" head on my replica. It is possible to swap the cams 180 degrees. There is a guy in Spain who has done this modification on a Seat/Fiat RWD Rally car. If you look on the Guy Croft web site there is some information.

I will also make my own valve covers with Abarth cast into the top.

Cheers

Piers

ProtoTipo
01-04-2017, 10:32
Which company is that, do they have a website? Any ideas on prices?

Hi Pim, It's RallySport Development.
Normally aspirated 131 engines are more than £30k, so I'd guess a complete head is going to be at least £8k, but probably more like £10k.
Small batch casting orders are not cheap?!

pim
01-04-2017, 17:47
Hi Chris,

Nice work but it is a way bit steep for my purse :(, maybe Piers's sugestion is an option.

Cheers,

Pim


Hi Pim, It's RallySport Development.
Normally aspirated 131 engines are more than £30k, so I'd guess a complete head is going to be at least £8k, but probably more like £10k.
Small batch casting orders are not cheap?!

Piers037
03-04-2017, 13:25
Hi Piers,

Any progress with youre 037 project?

Pim

Hi Pim,

I have been busy with my family and building our new house for the last few years. I have just got back from a holiday in Europe where I went to a round of the Historic WRC. There was 4 037's competing which was fantastic so it has fired me up to start working on my car. I also picked up a few small bits and pieces which was good.

Cheers

Piers

pim
01-07-2017, 10:28
Part by part its coming together. Now the rear subframe is also finished by Mick and he is now making the rear suspension parts for me ( wishbones and uprights ). Also had some sheet metal parts made to finish up the front end.
So i can have a rollin chassis if i order some wheels from: https://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjCxcuT1OfUAhWGL1AKHTYUBKMQFggjMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rointechnology.com%2F&usg=AFQjCNH_Tgi4aYqyPYDPsSA-3I2tMXsrsg

11497114981149911500

pim
31-08-2017, 09:58
Finally the time has come to pick up both subframes and suspension at Mick Covill. Looking forward meeting him and talking about the build.
Tonight i take the ferry to Hull and will arrive in the UK at the morning. :)

LM mic
31-08-2017, 13:53
Hello Pim
can wait to watch at your new parts !!!
Enjoy your travel and hope your delivery will be ook !!
Just post pics soonly !!!:o

Stephan
31-08-2017, 16:44
Finally the time has come to pick up both subframes and suspension at Mick Covill. Looking forward meeting him and talking about the build.
Tonight i take the ferry to Hull and will arrive in the UK at the morning. :)

I wish I could go with you in your pocket :)
I'm still waiting on my LB. I've set my hopes on mid october.....

The Slug
01-09-2017, 11:34
Hi Stephan,

Mid October.... not far away then... Time you joined the SEC Club and had full access to the forum where the builds are... only £26.10 the best £26 you will spend on the car I can tell you...

Stratos Fear
01-09-2017, 11:40
Hear Hear !

Stephan
02-09-2017, 22:14
Hi Stephan,

Mid October.... not far away then... Time you joined the SEC Club and had full access to the forum where the builds are... only £26.10 the best £26 you will spend on the car I can tell you...

I will do that very soon :)

pim
04-09-2017, 08:30
I made it to the UK and back safely with my little 900cc Panda. Most of the parts in the car but the rear subframe on top of the roof tightly tied to the jack points underneath the car :cool:. It was nice to meet Mick Covill in the flesh a very nice bloke ready to help me any way. Had a chance to look at 2 cars in his workshop he was building for other clients and of course took many pictures. Here ar some pictures :

Stratie.fr
04-09-2017, 13:19
I made it to the UK and back safely with my little 900cc Panda. Most of the parts in the car but the rear subframe on top of the roof tightly tied to the jack points underneath the car :cool:. It was nice to meet Mick Covill in the flesh a very nice bloke ready to help me any way. Had a chance to look at 2 cars in his workshop he was building for other clients and of course took many pictures. Here ar some pictures :


Hi Pim

these parts are looking nice! The rear subframe on the roof of your Fiat Panda seems a bit acrobatic and not easy for driving...happy to know you are back safely at home!

Hurry to see the progress on your 037 built and still in touch together for further informations about registration

Cheers
Frederic

LM mic
04-09-2017, 15:29
Very nice parts !!
Probably avery enjoying trip for you :o

pim
09-10-2017, 20:24
Well i have started a build logg on facebook for those interested: https://www.facebook.com/Pims-Lancia-037-1782898468405402/?ref=bookmarks
For now it will be slow progress because the Alpine has to be finished first.

LM mic
09-10-2017, 22:55
Hello Pim
I will follow your built very attentivly !!!!

pim
04-02-2018, 19:23
Trying to get the Alpine ready for paint in May or June. 037 is coming along nicely. Any help needed sourcing this part the surround of the gear stock, anyone have any idea if it is a one of ( just 037 ) or is it from another car?

monoposto
05-02-2018, 02:44
Excellent project! And don't hesitate to share pictures of the Alpine either!

ProtoTipo
05-02-2018, 10:49
Any help needed sourcing this part the surround of the gear stock, anyone have any idea if it is a one of ( just 037 ) or is it from another car?

037 only, I reckon Pim.
Here's the one in the U.K. based Olio car:

ProtoTipo
05-02-2018, 10:53
037 only, I reckon Pim.

Because it bolts into the 3 standard Monte/X1/9 stick captives. Therefore it has to be for that car only.

I've looked at every other likely part, Ferrari, 850 Spider, 500/600, Pantera etc.

pim
05-02-2018, 13:39
Because it bolts into the 3 standard Monte/X1/9 stick captives. Therefore it has to be for that car only.

I've looked at every other likely part, Ferrari, 850 Spider, 500/600, Pantera etc.

Is this an original Montecarlo stick?

pim
05-02-2018, 13:45
Excellent project! And don't hesitate to share pictures of the Alpine either!

You can find the Alpine build log over here: https://www.facebook.com/pimsalpine/?ref=bookmarks

ProtoTipo
05-02-2018, 15:13
Is this an original Montecarlo stick?

Yes.
X1/9s are similar, if not the same part.

NoCorseChris
07-02-2018, 15:49
For some reason, it tickled me when I spotted the X 2/0 designation on the back of the instrument cluster on my old Monte. Probably a clue in that.

ProtoTipo
07-02-2018, 16:35
For some reason, it tickled me when I spotted the X 2/0 designation on the back of the instrument cluster on my old Monte. Probably a clue in that.

I think it was going to be a Fiat at one stage Chris?
They do share so many parts, especially with the 1500 X1/9:
All four suspension corners, hubs and brakes. 'Same steering rack, but with longer track rods. 'Similar one long/one short driveshaft arrangement (Monte RH shaft tubular).

pim
30-03-2018, 09:29
need some help identifying this electric pump, it is i think for the water injection.

pim
30-03-2018, 09:30
the pump is right from the red circle

pim
07-08-2018, 21:27
Its beginning to look like a car now :D

ChrisCar6
08-08-2018, 00:43
Not sure you've got the seat mounted right.

bosmass
08-08-2018, 17:55
great pim, look forward to this project every time you post. This, a delta, or an rs200 would be my choice for the next project!

pacorron
11-08-2018, 23:31
Think the later small Mercedes convertible has a screw supercharger as standard, good for 1 bar boost.
I have use it, in combination with a delta integrale 16 v Gr.A engine in my 037 recreation I will post some pictures soon , I take it from a C32 AMG

13516135171351813519

pacorron
11-08-2018, 23:51
13520 Today engine is running , coolant system is finished , shafts Brakes and gear lever is done , most of the electrical system as well , car has more than 75 % of the job done, but belive me is a massive proyect I have been 6 years doing it I if somene is thinking in doing it he has to think about it well, it a nigthmare I was close to give up twice, but when I finish I will undestand thing in a different point of view ....I guess

Bernard
12-08-2018, 12:29
Excellent.... Don't give up !!.....will look forward to the video of it running...

pim
08-05-2019, 20:08
Looking great, i wish i was that far, how are you going about registration in Spain, Do you need a new registration or can you use the Montecarlo registration. Great seeing another build, please keep us posted! Do you have a build log?
My priorities ly now with the Alpine, first start up after engine being silent for almost 3 years: https://www.facebook.com/pimsalpine/videos/2130629507052379/
Hope to drive it this summer and then ( sadly ) sell it to finisch the 037. Only one car fits in the garage ;)

pim
08-05-2019, 20:08
What gearbos are you using?

13520 Today engine is running , coolant system is finished , shafts Brakes and gear lever is done , most of the electrical system as well , car has more than 75 % of the job done, but belive me is a massive proyect I have been 6 years doing it I if somene is thinking in doing it he has to think about it well, it a nigthmare I was close to give up twice, but when I finish I will undestand thing in a different point of view ....I guess

ProtoTipo
08-05-2019, 21:07
What gearbos are you using?

'Looks like a ZF to me Pim?

pim
09-05-2019, 17:29
yes it is, with the shift mechanism on the left side, must be Panthera then?

ProtoTipo
09-05-2019, 17:45
yes it is, with the shift mechanism on the left side, must be Panthera then?

Now you say Pim, yes.
It is only on the left side on Panteras?
Here is the car above, compared to my photo of the original (the OLIO FIAT livered car in the UK), which has the shift box on the right, as well as some oil take offs etc.

pim
12-05-2019, 10:06
heres a Panthera and 037 gearbox

ProtoTipo
12-05-2019, 10:38
heres a Panthera and 037 gearbox

Both expensive!

A GT40 ZF must have the gear shift on the right, as the 037?

pim
12-05-2019, 19:43
Yes it did somewhat as the GT40 had the gearbox inverted :rolleyes:

pim
12-05-2019, 19:44
Must be for a lower point of gravity??

pim
12-05-2019, 19:45
[QUOTE=ProtoTipo;45357]Both expensive!

i think over 15.000 Euros now :(

john
12-05-2019, 22:09
Must be for a lower point of gravity??
Or just so it drove the right way??
Mor forward gears than reverse(s)?
I'm only asking not being smart!

ProtoTipo
13-05-2019, 10:55
I'm confused now, because I've read that the Pantera (and 037) are the ones that have the ZF transaxle 'inverted', and that the GT40 is the right way up?
'Seems there's a lot of work to do, (with the 'oiling') if you want to fit a Pantera box the other way up in a GT40 replica?

john
13-05-2019, 15:54
The Porsche transaxle was inverted in Lionels "Evo", supposedly because the Alfa engine ran opposite direction to the Porsche engine.
Have I got that completely wrong?
And that did require an oil pump, cooler and breather system.

ProtoTipo
13-05-2019, 16:13
The Porsche transaxle was inverted in Lionels "Evo", supposedly because the Alfa engine ran opposite direction to the Porsche engine.
Have I got that completely wrong?
And that did require an oil pump, cooler and breather system.

No John,
A rear engine transaxle (911/Beetle) needs to be inverted for a mid engine car (like a Hewland that has the drain plug facing upwards, because it started life as Beetle gearbox).
That's easier for me to understand than this Pantera/GT40 thing.

All the engines turn the same way.

colin artus
13-05-2019, 17:32
B series Honda engines turn counter clockwise, but they are the only modern engines I know of with that configuration - there are probably various pre-war oddities as well.

Longtimefan
13-05-2019, 18:32
Perhaps it all goes back to the Starting Handle and the majority of people being right handed. Perhaps the Honda engine was designed by a left handed person, or am I being discriminatory?

Strat Fan
13-05-2019, 18:51
The Porsche transaxle was inverted in Lionels "Evo", supposedly because the Alfa engine ran opposite direction to the Porsche engine.
Have I got that completely wrong?
And that did require an oil pump, cooler and breather system.
As Chris says the Porsche 911 is rear engined with a forward mounted gearbox (transaxle). In the Porsche the input shaft is quite high because of the flat 6 engine requiring space underneath it for the exhaust manifolds etc.
If you were to spin the box round to suit the mid engined rear facing gearbox without inverting it then you end up with 1 forward and 6 reverse gears.
In a mid engined low ground clearance tarmac/road/sports cars such as the Gt40, Ultima, T70 etc where I have seen the Porsche box used then it is advantageous to have the box inverted so that the pinion shaft (and subsequently diff and output flanges) is 75mm above the input shaft/crank height as this gives a much better angle on the driveshafts. In the Napiersport EVO then it did not need an oil system but it was probably deemed advantageous to fit one. A breather system was required for sure. The later Getrag Porsche Gt2 & Gt3 boxes did have an internal oil system (& an external heat exchanger) and this did need to be modified to function once the box was inverted
On the 037 which was a rally car and therefore probably ran more ground clearance then it would be better to have the output flanges below the input shaft to get a better range of travel for the driveshafts.

Stratie.fr
13-05-2019, 19:07
[QUOTE=ProtoTipo;45357]Both expensive!

i think over 15.000 Euros now :(

Renault UN 1 are cheaper and often used on old GT40 replica as my Dax one...Isn’t possible to fit on the engine of your Lancia 037 build?

Strat Fan
13-05-2019, 19:34
[QUOTE=pim;45365]

Renault UN 1 are cheaper and often used on old GT40 replica as my Dax one...Isn’t possible to fit on the engine of your Lancia 037 build?
The Renault option is pretty outdated now and they were never that strong in the first place.
The more acceptable alternative is the Audi 01E or similar from the A4/A6 range. Because they are often TDi derived they can cope with the Torque. What effect this has on the ratios however needs calculating.
There is a company in Devon who do a range of adapter plates to suit although I suspect one for an 037 is not on the list!!

Strat Fan
13-05-2019, 19:35
[QUOTE=pim;45365]

Renault UN 1 are cheaper and often used on old GT40 replica as my Dax one...Isn’t possible to fit on the engine of your Lancia 037 build?
The Renault option is pretty outdated now and they were never that strong in the first place.
The more acceptable alternative is the Audi 01E or similar from the A4/A6 range. Because they are often TDi derived they can cope with the Torque. What effect this has on the ratios however needs calculating.
There is a company in Devon who do a range of adapter plates to suit although I suspect one for an 037 is not on the list!!

pim
14-05-2019, 07:49
[QUOTE=Stratie.fr;45389]
There is a company in Devon who do a range of adapter plates to suit although I suspect one for an 037 is not on the list!!
What is the name of that company?

pim
14-05-2019, 07:51
with the ZF the crown wheel/ differential can be turned 180 degrees so the engine runs the right way ( gears ). Just like the UN1 i believe?

ProtoTipo
14-05-2019, 08:32
with the ZF the crown wheel/ differential can be turned 180 degrees so the engine runs the right way ( gears ). Just like the UN1 i believe?

I see?
I'm learning things here.
I had no idea they went to these extremes for the GT40, but then it stands to reason that they'd want to get that Ford V8 hanging as low as possible.

ProtoTipo
14-05-2019, 08:35
[QUOTE=Strat Fan;45391]
What is the name of that company?

I'm guessing this Pim, but Craig will confirm:
http://www.gtracingonline.co.uk/4.html

Strat Fan
14-05-2019, 09:00
[QUOTE=pim;45397]

I'm guessing this Pim, but Craig will confirm:
http://www.gtracingonline.co.uk/4.html

That looks like the right one Chris.
I've only seen them on eBay before rather than on a website but the location and images look correct.

Strat Fan
14-05-2019, 09:18
with the ZF the crown wheel/ differential can be turned 180 degrees so the engine runs the right way ( gears ). Just like the UN1 i believe?

Yes, would think so. With the ZF the diff is dropped in from above/below so can be fitted either way around.
With the UN1 the casing splits down its centreline so I also think it can be potentially be fitted either way although I've only ever seen the box fitted in the OE diff down manner.

With the Porsche and the Audi then access to the diff is through a plate on one side so I assume that this means the crown wheel must always be on this side so they are not reversible.

john
14-05-2019, 10:15
Craig, thanks for explaining it for me! All so obvious when you say it but beyond my wit to work it all out for myself.

ProtoTipo
14-05-2019, 12:49
Why lots of DFV F1 cars have their gearbox sump plugs facing upwards:

pim
16-11-2020, 16:23
Build stil going on, i have a question about superchargers. I know some of you use a Toyota V6 with a supercharger. Does this setup have a kind of air cooler. I tried looking for some Lotus supercharger pictures but cant see a cooler?
I am strungling to make a discision about using an intercooler but that takes a lot of space at the rear, and its not quite 037 ( see picture of intercooler mock up. If i could run without that would be the easiest. Than another thought is to use water injection like the original. I know Saab has used it to before.
Any thoughts, help.
I am using an Eaton M90 from a jaguar spinning 12.000 rpm, not sure if thats any use :rolleyes:

Best regards to everyone, Pim
170361703717038

STR_Strat
16-11-2020, 21:59
Hi Pim,

The lack of a charge cooler on the Supercharged Toyota V6 is the limiting factor as far as ultimate power gains is concerned, even in the Evora they suffer from heat soak.
The latter Evora S410 uses a slightly bigger Supercharger and more importantly now has a charge cooler, I think if you can fit one in it would be a good idea.

Dave

pim
17-11-2020, 08:53
Thanks for the comment Dave, so it is doable without a cooler but can create heat soak ( less power or damage???? ).
I did think about a charge cooler but this would mean an extra cooling radiator, hoses to the front of the car. And like the intercooler very close to the exhaust pipe
I am seriously thinking about water injection, modern BMW use it: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/bmw-m4-gtss-water-injection-system-feature-other-cars-2019.


Hi Pim,

The lack of a charge cooler on the Supercharged Toyota V6 is the limiting factor as far as ultimate power gains is concerned, even in the Evora they suffer from heat soak.
The latter Evora S410 uses a slightly bigger Supercharger and more importantly now has a charge cooler, I think if you can fit one in it would be a good idea.

Dave

Normb666
17-11-2020, 12:24
But how much power do you actually want? Standard Lotus figure for the non-chargecooled cars is 345bhp, but you can get Komo-Tec upgrades to well over 400bhp if you want, and none of the extra complications of plumbing of extra radiators or water tank for H20 injection.

Normb666
17-11-2020, 12:28
Ah, hang on, you're not using the Toyota engine, are you....forget what I just said! :)

STR_Strat
18-11-2020, 09:18
Thanks for the comment Dave, so it is doable without a cooler but can create heat soak ( less power or damage???? ).


Hi Pim,
My experience is limited to the Toyota and aftermarket ECU combination. To answer your question, I guess both.
As the inlet temperatures rise they have to change the ignition timing to prevent knock and this reduces the power significantly but protects the engine from pre-ignition.
I have inlet pressure and knock,inlet temperature sensors to provide the information to the ECU and it is set up to be on the "safe" side to protect the engine. I'm pretty sure they mentioned something like a 5bhp reduction for every degree of increase in temperature over a certain limit, but don't hold me to that.
To give you an indication, after an initial warm up the first run on the rollers will see 380phb+, after a couple of runs heat soak reduced that to around 345bhp so quite significant.
I have thought about water injection and that maybe something I add at some point. On a cold damp morning you can feel the difference as you do get more power, in just the conditions when you don't want it:D

Dave

LPH_UK
18-11-2020, 11:04
The SC I had on a Honda K20 in my Lotus used a air/water charge cool system. Small cooler core after the SC which was connected to a rad at the front of the car and used an electric pump to circulate the fluid. Worked well, even though the SC was actually being 'over driven' and so stuggled with efficiency at high rpm.

Still, it managed to get close to 380hp from a 2 ltire 4 pot!

NoCorseChris
18-11-2020, 21:47
Neil Simons used one of these on his turbo-nutter car: https://www.chargecooler.co.uk/. Worked really well IIRC

I did a DIY job on my supercharged car. Grafted a cooler core from a Jag V8 into a spare Alfa plenum then had the coolant pump and a motorcycle rad with fan, the whole lot under ECU control. I also fitted water/meth injection but it wasn’t really needed, charge temps never got that bad.

A water based system can potentially handle a lot more heat than an air/air intercooler but has the penalty of added complexity and weight. Another benefit of a water based system for a mid/rear engine is packaging of course, a small coolant rad up front is easier to deal with than a massive air/air intercooler at the back somewhere.

pim
25-11-2020, 19:20
Well thanks a lott guys for all your comments, thats what i have always liked about this forum, fast and sensible comments. Really miss being around here.
I am going to try without anny cooling at all, i also will have an ECU ( Omex 710 ) with air temp, air press and knock sensors. Aiming for 300Hp with an 3 ltr 4 cil so hope it wil turn out OK. The charge coolers will need an extra radiator up front with all the plumbing etc. Don't want that if its not needed, space is limited as it is now.

pim
17-12-2021, 12:14
Hi all, been a while since my last post. Build stil going on , blog on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Pims-Lancia-037-1782898468405402
Looking for someone that has experience wiring sensors for an ECU. I have a wiring diagram so i know which wires go to which sensor. But at the sensor there is a choice on which spade goos which colour. F.I. the coolant temp sensor and air temp have 2 spades, which is earth and which is signal. Same for injectors, TPS etc.
Is there some book maybe or internet link? Have been searching only found a picture of an injector with the pin designation, see attached.
Any help appriciated

pim
17-12-2021, 12:15
forgot the picture 19024

ProtoTipo
18-12-2021, 12:47
Hi Pim, 2 very nice Alpines for sale in the UK today:

Early A310 (http://www.justinbanks.com/1973-alpine-renault-a310/)

Very original A110 (https://www.paddockgarage.co.uk/used-cars/alpine-a110-great-dunmow-201507115110049)

ProtoTipo
18-12-2021, 13:13
Is there some book maybe or internet link? Have been searching only found a picture of an injector with the pin designation, see attached.
Any help appriciated

This is for the Thema/Integrale 16v (as well as some Fiats) engine Pim?

pim
19-12-2021, 13:54
Nice one, looking at the wheels and interior also a Spanish A110. Mine wil be up for sale in 2022, need the cash to finish the 037 :o


Hi Pim, 2 very nice Alpines for sale in the UK today:

Early A310 (http://www.justinbanks.com/1973-alpine-renault-a310/)

Very original A110 (https://www.paddockgarage.co.uk/used-cars/alpine-a110-great-dunmow-201507115110049)

pim
19-12-2021, 13:59
As much as i would like to use an Italian engine, sorry to say its not. I chose the engine for its layout with intake on the left and exhaust on the right. Also needed to be a 16 valve engine thats tilted to the right like the original 037. Its a Volvo B230 with a B234 cilinderhead, here attached to the Porsche Boxster gearbox.
19026


This is for the Thema/Integrale 16v (as well as some Fiats) engine Pim?

ProtoTipo
19-12-2021, 14:37
Its a Volvo B230 with a B234 cilinderhead, here attached to the Porsche Boxster gearbox.

I understand now.
Your sensor wiring question relates to the Volvo engine.

pim
21-12-2021, 09:40
All sorted now
:D