Stratos Hawk kit, what you get?

[TrevS]

Hi all

I've started looking into Stratos replica's again as a possible next project once my GT40 replica is finished. I am probably looking to go for a Alfa engined Hawk kit and have just been having a look at the kit prices again but I am not quite clear what you get with a Hawk kit for £11706. Does anyone have a full list of components that come with the kit and a list of components that don't? Also if anyone has any pictures of how the kit arrives (is it a rolling chassis?) that would be really useful. Finally I know a lot of stratos builders consider these cars to be a difficult kit to build. Can I ask what the main challenges are, is it metal fabrication, fiberglass work etc?

Thanks

Trevor

[Monte76]

The biggest challenge by far is time, if you've got a lot of other things going on in your life then these projects can drag on.

When I start a project I like to finish it so I really committed the time to my first build and we more or less got the car on the road within 12 months. I'd never built a car before in my life but its just like a giant jigsaw puzzle you just are one step at a time. It's a lot easier now as you have the forum to get advice from, we didn't even have the Internet back in my day.

The cars are relatively easy to build but again this really depends on your own ability, ingenuity, experience, tools and equipment. If you've built a GT40 already you obviously aren't coming into this fresh faced.

Good choice as a next project though, I'm still enjoying my car after 24 years as much as I did when I first built it.

Vince.

[Jeff]

Quick ... the worms are escaping .....

As you've already built a kit car, then you'll already be forewarned and forearmed. Building a Stratos replica isn't without it's challenges. With the Hawk kit there is certainly an amount of body work required, but this isn't to say the LB kit doesn't have it's own share too. There will be mechanical fabrication required too and a fair number of components to find. The hawk is recognised as the most faithful replica, and if you're looking for that then the Hawk is the obvious choice. If you're more flexible and looking for the spirit of the car then the LB is definitely worth considering.

2p

Jeff

[Hawk HF3000 now 80% built after 3 yrs]

[ProtoTipo]

but I am not quite clear what you get with a Hawk kit for £11706.
Thanks
Trevor

It's over £14k when you add the VAT. Here's what you don't get:
Roof wing
Rear spoiler
2 Fuel tanks
Mechanisms for raising the door windows
Mechanisms for raising the headlamp pods
Front grille
Shock absorbers and springs
Wiring loom
Alloy bulkhead
Front and rear splash panels
Alloy trims for the 'A' pillar and rain gutters

[ProtoTipo]

You do get:

Windscreen
Door windows
Rear louvres
Front louvres
Centre tunnel interior covers
Dashboard, dash binnacle and fascia
Door bins
Rear lamp surrounds
All the suspension parts (not the steering rack though. I should have added that the other list. I don't think you get the ARBs too?)

[TrevS]

Thanks for the info. Do you get wheels, brakes, radiator, rad pipes, any sort of AC unit? Also is there any aluminium panelling to do and again do the panels come with the kit? What about smaller parts like the fuel filler pipes and caps?

Also does the kit come with a build manual? My GT40 has one and while the build never goes exactly as the manual says it's very useful.

[ProtoTipo]

Thanks for the info. Do you get wheels, brakes, radiator, rad pipes, any sort of AC unit? Also is there any aluminium panelling to do and again do the panels come with the kit? What about smaller parts like the fuel filler pipes and caps?

Also does the kit come with a build manual? My GT40 has one and while the build never goes exactly as the manual says it's very useful.

You get a build manual.
The only alloy panels you get are the floors, which are already fastened in. The front alloy panels and rear alloy (splash) panels are at extra cost, but available.
No, you don't get wheels, brakes, radiator, rad pipes etc. You don't get fuel filler pipes or caps.

[ProtoTipo]

I don't think you get the gear linkage?

Is that right Jeff?

[strat24v]

Dont think the aluminium firewall is included either.

Included items are

Powdercoated chassis with aluminium floor pre fitted

Front upper wishbones with various spacers, nuts, bolts and rod ends
Lower front transverse arm with spacers and rod end (no bottom ball joint, no front uprights)
Lower radius arms with clevis and rod end
Steering arms
Steering rack mounts

Rear lower wishbone with spacers and rod end bearing
rear radius arm with bushes/bearings
Bare rear upright

Pedal set with mounting bar and servo link
Track rod end adaptors
split alloy steering column bearing
Four door hinges
Front clam hinges
rear clam hinges
Boot lid hinges
Front engine mount
gearbox mount
engine steady bar
Engine mounting rubber bushes (x3)
Windscreen (non heated)

Centre tub
2 door outers
2 door inners
2 door helmet bins
dash moulding/s
Ally dash fascia (stradale)
2 Perspex side windows
2 centre tunnel mouldings
Rear clam
Two rear light surrounds
Boot lid
Rear louvre panel
front clam
4 ally louvres
2 pop up headlight mouldings
2 front lamp covers
2 pop up lamp housing covers

[strat24v]

What you DON'T get

Front grill
Headlamp raising mechanism
Lights
Body pin bases
Multi piece ally inner wheel arches
Radiator and fans
coolant pipes
Steering rack
front shocks and springs
Front uprights
Front wheel bearings
Rear wheel bearings
Rear hubs
Front hubs and dust caps
Lower ball joints
Steering column universal joint
Intermediate steering shaft
Steering column
Heater/fan unit
Heater piping
Gear lever and linkage
Door catches (need modifying)
door lock links
Ally firewall
Fuel tanks
Fuel caps and fittings
Rear struts
Rear strut top mounts
Engine bay splash/stoneguard panels
Boot heatshield
Exhaust system
Rear body pins
front anti roll bar and links
Rear anti roll bar and links
Screen surround
Window lift kit
Door cappings
Gutters
Group 4 arches
Group 4 quad pod and cover
roof vent
Tail spoiler
Roof spoiler
Front chin spoiler
Lower front lamp pods
Wheel rims
Tyres
Wiring loom, fuse box and relays
Interior trim panels

[strat24v]

Then a fair amount of donor car parts..................:confused:

[Guy Mayers]

You will get a lot of support and make a whole bunch of great friends (whichever Statos kit you choose) and a huge sense of achievement when it (finally) hits the road!

Guy

[TrevS]

Cheers guys. I looked into buying a stratos a few years ago and got very close but had a change of heart at the last moment and went for a GT40. I've got a few options for my next project and a stratos is very much at the top of the list but I want to go into any build with my eyes open as to what to expect and a clear idea of cost. It looks like a very similar build to my GT40 were I've had to do all the metal panelling myself and fabricate some parts or have them made.

Could you give me an idea of the cost needed for a complete kit, additional parts and donor parts. So really a ball park figure for everything I'd need to build the car?

Trev

[strat24v]

25k. If you start with rebuilt engines, throttle bodies, aftermarket ecu's and big brakes, add another 10k

[Guy Mayers]

How long is a piece of string? It'll depend on final spec, a Stradale is a cheaper base kit than a Gp4 and will cost less for wheels and tyres too. Most people who go the Gp4 route tend to spend a bob or two more on paint too. Originality has a cost too. £150 for a pair of inner door handles or a lot less from the scrapyard. Dino Coupe front indicators? Hundreds too but there are alternatives out there. How much work will you farm out to specialists or will you do it all yourself? Engine & box spec? An Alfa V6 is almost de rigeur these days but an early 12v from the 164 or a later 24v from the GTV or 166? Rebuild costs if needed? Want a slippy diff? Add an extra £600 if the donor hasn't got one!

At the end of the day I'll bet there's not many of us who kept a track of costs accurately either! Force me into putting a number down and I think I'd say a minimum of £25k for a decent V6 Stradale and £30k for a Gp4 car.

Scary innit!? But then spend that on a mainstream car and in 5 years it's worth under £5k whereas a Hawk or Lister Bell is still likely to be worth £25k if it's a quality build.

If you're contemplating a build for potential resale (some people get the satisfaction from building not driving) then I'd seriously council building with LHD as the resale market is much bigger and won't put off many UK buyers. That's my only regret with mine!

Cheers

Guy

[ProtoTipo]

25k. If you start with rebuilt engines, throttle bodies, aftermarket ecu's and big brakes, add another 10k

Yep, I'll second that.
You can't do a new build for less than £25k.

[TrevS]

Thanks Guy, some valuable info. I know how the costs can get out of hand on these projects, my GT40 has gone very much like that as I have opted for all the good stuff like bias adjustable brakes and want the car to look as original as possible so have sourced some original parts. I think I must be £20k in already without engine or bodywork. Realistically looking at £40k for my GT40 so I can totally appreciate the costs involved.

I've seen a few of this forum's car at shows in the past and I always like seeing your car Guy. Not sure why you regret not going for LHD, I can understand you getting more money in Eurpoe for the car but your not considering selling it are you and surely it's better to have the right car for you and not think about resale too much? If you do consider parting with it, give me a shout.

Trev

[Guy Mayers]

Thanks for the comments Trev, despite the issues I've had with it in the last 12 months (Rear End Rebuild Thread) I can't see me ever parting with it! At the start of the build all I wanted was a nice Stradale. Got in with the wrong crowd and went down the originality route as far as possible until it evolved into what it is now. Conversion to LHD is possible but not really practical!

Guy

[Jeff]

I don't think you get the gear linkage?

Is that right Jeff?

gear linkage is extra - Gerry does sell one.

[StruanR]

For a top-end liveried GP4 car more like £60k and another £100k for the right engine and gearbox, hubs, wheels....!
And we'll still pick holes in it, steering rack, suspension are wrong, cabin should be steel, sills too deep .... can't use racing numbers unless you're competing, stickers are wrong, mechanical tacho not fitted, not that Joe Public knows or cares...

[strat24v]

Sensible figures for a top end group 4 Struan

[ProtoTipo]

But you'll only sell at £25k if you're lucky.
So keep it, if you can?

[ProtoTipo]

But you'll only sell at £25k if you're lucky.
So keep it, if you can?

Here's an example of why it's best not to sell
£21,280 (http://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2012-11-24/car/lancia-stratos.aspx)
'Granted it's a 12v, but no certainly no penny pinching otherwise.
I know of at least four recent sales of finished Hawks that have made hardly any more, and a couple for a little less.

[StruanR]

Yes that is the story, hang on to it if you can.
But what if you convert to LHD and sell on the continent?
Any idea of foreign sale values?

[ProtoTipo]

Yes that is the story, hang on to it if you can.
But what if you convert to LHD and sell on the continent?
Any idea of foreign sale values?

I'd say LHD helps, but doesn't make the significant difference you'd imagine.

[colin artus]

If you go for a Hawk you will of course be a Top Gear hero; an uber Stig!

[Stratie.fr]

Wooh!
Ford GT 40 and Lancia Stratos are for my opinion better race cars ever made
Build these two replicas is an amazing challenge and a great dream for me!
Good luck Trev with your project
Frederic

[john]

I'd say LHD helps, but doesn't make the significant difference you'd imagine.

No, the difference is probably in the ease of sale rather than the value.