Alfa 164 12V Flywheel

[AndyH]

Hi,

Does anyone have a "spare" 164 12V flywheel that I could borrow for a while please??

I need it as a pattern to make up a new flywheel...
My current flywheel has lots of hairline cracks in it and the recommendation is to change.

Now that the weather has improved, I don't really want to take my car off the road. Hence the request to borrow one.

Beer vouchers will be supplied!

Regards
Andrew

[Guy Mayers]

Beer vouchers will be accepted but you'll have to pop over to Liverpool to collect it Andy. And it may still be attached to an engine!

Guy

[AndyH]

Many thanks Guy,
I drop you a text when I've got a date in mind.
regards
Andrew

[ducatiman]

Andy, which flywheel are you running with at the moment.....................as I have a dual mass and standard flywheel that you could borrow. I also have available for sale a copy of a dual mass flywheel but is only 7.5Kg and will take a racing clutch arrangement if you want to go for an upgrade.

[AndyH]

Hi,
I'm running with the 164 12V flywheel on my 24V engine. Not a Dual Mass system.
I converted the 6 speed gearbox to operate a push type release bearing.
The clutch has been Ok to date, but feels like it may not have as much life as I thought.

I've been talking to Helix about their Organic and paddle clutches with uprated pressure plates.
The organic clutch should do the job OK and be much better for everyday driving.... The difference in torque capability using the 164 clutch vs the 166 clutch is only 10NM, so not worth all the hassle of changing the gearbox back to work with a "pull" type pressure plate.

The guy at Helix recommended changing the flywheel because of the hairline cracks.
I've been talking to "TTV racing" about making me up a new, lighter, steel flywheel... No problem, but need one to copy / re-engineer.

From what I can see on the forum, Neil (Turbonutter) has used TTV before and Rob (Sando) is already using a Helix Organic clutch and seems OK (although I'm not sure if it's a 164 or 166 variant).

[turbonutter]

Hi Andy,
TTV should have some of the measurements from the flywheel i sent them - Problem is I cant remember what flywheel I sent. They may even still have it, as I didnt ask for it back. The final product I got from them was fine, but it took a long time & the first two they made were wrong! The first too thick & the second had the crank bolt pattern a mirror image of what it should be. The final one was Ok and when i had it all balanced, it only needed a tiny amount of material removing, so they must have replicated the out of balance pretty well.

[AndyH]

Thanks Neil,
I have to say that I was hoping that TTV would be able to replicate the out of balance to avoid having to do a complete engine balance.

I'm a novice to engine balancing. I always assumed that you couldn't do it with the engine in the car and it was done as a crank, flywheel (and clutch?), con rod and piston assembly?

I'll have a chat with TTV about the balance (and mention the hole pattern at the same time).
Andrew

[turbonutter]

Correct you cant do the balance with the engine in the car, Mine was done at vibration free, where they actually run the crank and pistons etc in the block - there is a video on my website of this and it comes out with really good results. The flywheel I got was as I said, very close, but having said that it wasnt the flywheel from the actual engine that they copied & I have seen different cut outs on the back of them. To be sure its the same, you need to copy the flywheel thats in your car! As you dont want to do that, you could always sent the old and new flywheel to Vibration free- they can match your new flywheel to the old one, & balance the clutch as well if you really want.

[AndyH]

The plot thickens. The flywheel on my 24V engine is from a 12V 164 engine, so not the same either although balance doesn't appear to be an issue.

It's sounding more like a winter project to remove the current flywheel and send for balancing along with the clutch / pressure plate.

[Strat Fan]

Hi Andy,

How are you running your Crank sensor if you have a 164 flywheel fitted? the trigger is normally in the back of the flywheel on the 156/166 but is on the crank end on a 12v 164.
The standard flywheel swap on a 166 engine uses the solid GTA flywheel although a 2.5litre 156 one works just as well.
I had the flywheel balanced to the engine at Vibration free with the engine still in the car rather than the bare block full assembly balance that the guys with the blue printed engines have had done. Requires a bit of though but it can done! Obviously the full balance is better but if you are just running a stock engine then dialing the flywheel into the engine will suffice.
A GTA clutch can be fitted to either a GTA or a 2.5 litre flywheel. The GTA cover plate has improved clamping pressure over the standard 156 version so should be superior to a 12v version.

[turbonutter]

That's useful to know Craig, i.e.that they can actually balance the engine in the car.

[AndyH]

Hi,

The sensor is as the standard 166 set-up. The flywheel I have (from a 1989 Alfa 164 12V) has a timing ring on the back of the flywheel and it looked the same as the dual mass flywheel I had access to. I do remember the sensor on the 164 as being on the pulley end of the crank though.

I stuck it all together and it all seems to work pretty well.

I have to mention that the donor 24V engine I had was from an automatic Alfa 166, so I never had the original flywheel as such.

Maybe I was just lucky?

[AndyH]

Maybe I was just lucky?

I nipped over to Liverpool to pick up the flywheel that Guy had... Turns out I have been lucky... The 164 flywheel Guy had has no timing ring on it.
The one I have must be a transition flywheel that was destined for another engine (24V) after the 12V?

I have a solid flywheel, not a dual mass, but mine has the 24V timing ring on the back.
It's fitted with a 164 12V pressure plate and clutch (bought from Alfa)

Is it likely to be the same as a 164 24V engine, or a 2.5 24V engine??
Can anyone shed any light on this please?

[strat24v]

2.5 probably Andy. The 164 has the timing bit on the crank nose pulley.

[Sando]

You may find that the smaller 12v clutch will only fit that flywheel Andy. The 24v has slightly bigger clutch dia and mounting PCD....... My Kappa engine was originally auto and has the same smaller 12v flywheel with the trigger wheel on the back, uses 12v size clutch (Helix paddle)