Matt's Stradale [Archive] - Stratos Enthusiasts Club

Guy Mayers

17-10-2014, 09:47

Looking really good! Cutting the sill line back is one big undertaking! I also like the mods in the footwell which should look great once skinned. Have you done anything with the roof cage to take it closer to the pillars and around the perimeter of the screen? Are you going to replace Gerry's front louvre panels with the right shaped ones too?

Guy

StruanR

17-10-2014, 10:02

Magnificent, if only cockpit could be in steel ... :)
Struan

maxlouis

17-10-2014, 11:04

Yes, lots of work - modified the roof cage to the extent possible and sourced a set of louvres from Italy. Also reworked the front compartment to use the original pedal box/unservo-ed brake system/radiator/steering rack and to accommodate a spare wheel (and aircon as a concession to usability ). The main spine of the car had to be off set to original dimensions to allow the gear linkage to meet the gearbox in the right place (so wider LHS I think) and have altered rear suspension geometry to accommodate original struts, brakes etc. BTW, I've got an original set of Stradale wheels that I would like to use but a bit scarred about mag fatigue - does anyone know anything about this?

Looking really good! Cutting the sill line back is one big undertaking! I also like the mods in the footwell which should look great once skinned. Have you done anything with the roof cage to take it closer to the pillars and around the perimeter of the screen? Are you going to replace Gerry's front louvre panels with the right shaped ones too?

Guy

Strat Fan

17-10-2014, 13:04

Hi Matt,

Were you not tempted by the "original/repro" chassis that was sold at auction recently?
With the combination of that tub, the Ferrari engine & the quantity of correct parts that you already have then you would have been very close to creating the ultimate replica which would have been virtually indistinguishable from the real thing for a fraction of the price.
I read somewhere that the dark blue McGann car with the Giro nose was made from one of the Gartrac tubs & therefore wasn't "real", guess who was behind the claim.

maxlouis

17-10-2014, 13:53

No - I started building a standard Hawk (if there is such a thing) and just got a bit obsessive, but I guess I'm not alone in that :)

Hi Matt,

Were you not tempted by the "original/repro" chassis that was sold at auction recently?
With the combination of that tub, the Ferrari engine & the quantity of correct parts that you already have then you would have been very close to creating the ultimate replica which would have been virtually indistinguishable from the real thing for a fraction of the price.
I read somewhere that the dark blue McGann car with the Giro nose was made from one of the Gartrac tubs & therefore wasn't "real", guess who was behind the claim.

StruanR

17-10-2014, 14:32

No - I started building a standard Hawk (if there is such a thing) and just got a bit obsessive, but I guess I'm not alone in that :)

Sadly that's how it starts .... :rolleyes:
Struan

ChrisC

17-10-2014, 18:23

I read somewhere that the dark blue McGann car with the Giro nose was made from one of the Gartrac tubs & therefore wasn't "real", guess who was behind the claim.

Is this the same guy selling parts?

http://www.hemmings.com/parts/item/Body-%26-Exterior/Body-Parts/Lancia-Stratos-Bodyw/5796.html

LM mic

17-10-2014, 18:42

I've got an original set of Stradale wheels that I would like to use but a bit scarred about mag fatigue - does anyone know anything about this?

If your wheels are really original ones ; they have been treated with aspecial treatment nemed "chromate" and then painted in gold so years damage corrosion have not done that bad work you can find on racing magnesium wheels getting only a miror polish after machining casting when they where brand new
This one the good good point ; in an other hand concerning load on the magnesium , considering they are stradale stuff they probably did not suffer much but who never know !

There are 2 sort of inspection; one is cheap and you can do it on your own but it is mandatory to have those wheel sand blasted ( not with sand but "nuts chips" and it's the same effect ) to take off painting and then apply a red product ( it's a spraycan) live it for 10mn , clean and then spray the second white product ; if some red lines comes you can just have those wheel as seat of memorabilia
If everything is ok you will need to paint them again and if you now some body able to do some Alodine treatment before it will be much better
Second test is With X rays or better IRM tecnology but no many company do this and the process is cost less for a privater

Hope this helps

maxlouis

17-10-2014, 22:16

If your wheels are really original ones ; they have been treated with aspecial treatment nemed "chromate" and then painted in gold so years damage corrosion have not done that bad work you can find on racing magnesium wheels getting only a miror polish after machining casting when they where brand new
This one the good good point ; in an other hand concerning load on the magnesium , considering they are stradale stuff they probably did not suffer much but who never know !

There are 2 sort of inspection; one is cheap and you can do it on your own but it is mandatory to have those wheel sand blasted ( not with sand but "nuts chips" and it's the same effect ) to take off painting and then apply a red product ( it's a spraycan) live it for 10mn , clean and then spray the second white product ; if some red lines comes you can just have those wheel as seat of memorabilia
If everything is ok you will need to paint them again and if you now some body able to do some Alodine treatment before it will be much better
Second test is With X rays or better IRM tecnology but no many company do this and the process is cost less for a privater

Hope this helps
That's very helpful - thank you! I would like to use them as they look really good so will follow your advice and also get a set of Ronin coffin spokes; anyone bought a set here?

Fingers

18-10-2014, 01:09

Be very careful with any alodine, it's chromic acid and is quite toxic. Safety glasses and latex gloves at the bare minimum, and any rags or material that comes into contact should be flushed with water immediatly, it has a tendency to ignite as it dries out. It's really good stuff but just needs to be treated with respect. It also helps paint stick to aluminium. I won't paint ally without using it. Selenious acid works best for spot touch ups on magnesium, a proper chromate bath is even better if you can find one.

LM mic

18-10-2014, 07:57

To be honest I have used Alodine for ages and never had any issues with ; you are talking about Acid ? Alodine never was eating any part of material I plunged into ? I bought Alodine in small plastic bottlle to mix to warm medium water and this was send by the supplier by post ? So am wondering really if it was so dangerous you are describing ( it's complety different than nitric acid for example !! yes this one is really dangerous )
I was using Alodine to make any aluminium part I built a sort of yellow gold color ( before painting) and just using glove not to have thingers yellow too !! and had some days some on hand but really never feel any attack ?

But you probably know more ; so it's better to follow your precautionous advise ..... I will do next time now for sure

Interesting you are speaking of Chromate bath ; is this one that makes parts black ? Will be very interested to know more about this ( Can a private people use it easily ?)

LM mic

18-10-2014, 08:06

That's very helpful - thank you! I would like to use them as they look really good so will follow your advice and also get a set of Ronin coffin spokes; anyone bought a set here?

I recently sourced Magnesium set of wheel from Marvic ; they are ( Just to me!) more accurate than Ronin ones and done properly as original ones where done and just for
You to know ; they are also able to supply with reasonable price the original Stratos upright

7270
7273

strat24v

18-10-2014, 09:14

I'd contacted marvic about their uprights but at 2.5k a pair, they were a bit too much money. Similar items were available elsewhere and have been for a few years but I was advised against them due to issues with cracking of the castings. By the time you factor in the stratos bearing and hub, they get pricey so I've gone down the route of a more modern machined from billet version, similar geometry to the original stratos but with a 5 x 108 pcd cartridge style bearing kindly supplied by listerbell. Radial mount ap 6720 calipers, wheel speed sensors and a few other features. With some careful design, wheels from marvic, roin, listerbell and hawk can all fit under a group 4 arch.

strat24v

18-10-2014, 09:32

What diameter are the struts that fit in the marvic upright?

maxlouis

18-10-2014, 11:55

These are my wheels, refinished by Ian Jemison http://www.ianjemison.co.uk who repair and refinish magnesium wheels, but I didn't think to ask him to X-ray etc - anyway I'll use them but not 'in anger'. Those uprights look quite different to my Stradale ones (below) - they must be for competition are they?

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I recently sourced Magnesium set of wheel from Marvic ; they are ( Just to me!) more accurate than Ronin ones and done properly as original ones where done and just for
You to know ; they are also able to supply with reasonable price the original Stratos upright

7270
7273

Fingers

18-10-2014, 21:46

Any cracking in magnesium is usually easy to see visually due to the coarse grain structure, the same with cast alumimium. The dye checking method Michel mentioned is probably the easiest method for crack detection, but won't work if the material has been media blasted (depending on the type of media) as it moves material and can close over the cracks. Dye checking requires the item to be very clean an also paint stripped. It's easy to miss cracks when x-raying thicker material, but doesn't require paint stripping, it's time consuming and expensive. Eddy current inspection is my favourite, it's quick, easy, doesn't require paint stripping and is very sensitive, you can use different fequencies to look for cracking at different levels in the material, high freq for surface, low freq for sub surface. It requires a refence standard made of the same material as you're going to inspect with a sample crack to calibrate the machine but any NDT firm would have dosens of these. If you lived close I'd do the eddy current on them for you.

There will be NDT firms around that would do it for you if you're concerned, it's not usually cheap though. I'm lucky, I walk down to the end of our hangar and do it myself, I was in our NDT dept for three years and they still let me use the equipment. The thermal infrared is a cool toy to play with!

Alodine/Alochrome are brand names, the conversion coating is chromic acid, diluted of course, not too harmful on metal, not very friendly for your body. If you can get an alodine touch-n-prep pen use that, they're great, just apply and wait for it to dry, no need to flush the area.

maxlouis

19-10-2014, 10:16

Thanks Paul; I will investigate the Eddy route as they have already been refinished and am not sure there will be much left of them if I repeat the process!

Any cracking in magnesium is usually easy to see visually due to the coarse grain structure, the same with cast alumimium. The dye checking method Michel mentioned is probably the easiest method for crack detection, but won't work if the material has been media blasted (depending on the type of media) as it moves material and can close over the cracks. Dye checking requires the item to be very clean an also paint stripped. It's easy to miss cracks when x-raying thicker material, but doesn't require paint stripping, it's time consuming and expensive. Eddy current inspection is my favourite, it's quick, easy, doesn't require paint stripping and is very sensitive, you can use different fequencies to look for cracking at different levels in the material, high freq for surface, low freq for sub surface. It requires a refence standard made of the same material as you're going to inspect with a sample crack to calibrate the machine but any NDT firm would have dosens of these. If you lived close I'd do the eddy current on them for you.

There will be NDT firms around that would do it for you if you're concerned, it's not usually cheap though. I'm lucky, I walk down to the end of our hangar and do it myself, I was in our NDT dept for three years and they still let me use the equipment. The thermal infrared is a cool toy to play with!

Alodine/Alochrome are brand names, the conversion coating is chromic acid, diluted of course, not too harmful on metal, not very friendly for your body. If you can get an alodine touch-n-prep pen use that, they're great, just apply and wait for it to dry, no need to flush the area.

maxlouis

22-10-2014, 00:45

730373047305
Various suspension bits progressing...

maxlouis

22-10-2014, 01:03

7306730773087309
Trying to find space for three whales in a mini... - aircon (fake heater box is now air con unit), battery and spare - v rough at moment but hopefully it will work!

maxlouis

10-11-2015, 23:08

Making some progress but with a slightly different approach: all steel floor and front section (photos are a 8967bit rubbish- apologies)

maxlouis

10-11-2015, 23:14

8969and rear section altered to accommodate original uprights, and A pillars changed in steel which was a challenge but hopefully the view out will be worth it. 8968

LM mic

11-11-2015, 08:14

Nice progress !!!

maxlouis

11-11-2015, 10:29

Thank! Slow but at least we're getting there and it should speed up when the tub is complete which it almost is...

Stratie.fr

11-11-2015, 12:21

Nice progress and a great build!
Really an amazing car with stradale wheels and Dino engine!!
Is it a 2.4 or 2.0 L ?... from Fiat Dino or maybe Ferrari one?!
Frederic

maxlouis

11-11-2015, 17:50

Stratie.fr

11-11-2015, 18:09

Thanks - engine and gearbox are from a 246GT so 2,418cc but with a Stratos inlet manifold and matching carbs (40IDFs) in place of the usual 40DCNF Webers. And, air conditioning (I'm old...) which remains a controversial challenge (you can see the compressor sticking out the bottom held in place by a weird tripod bracket).

That's really an incredible challenge to build a car like yours... With a lot of original parts from real car and a Ferrari Dino engine ... And air conditionning! Almost a real Stradale with modern improvements!!
Congrats

StruanR

11-11-2015, 18:55

A Stratos replica should have a Dino engine, otherwise it's just a kit car....:rolleyes:
Next best Ferrari 308, shares loads of components.
Alfa V6 may be a better engine, but nothing like a Stratos.....
Struan

maxlouis

12-11-2015, 00:26

We’ve still got a way to go but the plan remains to try to build a car that looks and feels as close to the original as practicable but functions as a useable and attractive everyday road car – so it has to be reliable, serviceable, better insulated so as not to be oppressive - and the ventilation has to work (and that’s obviously about getting air ‘out’ as well as ‘in’ so we’ve tried to prioritise that) as well as thinking about where the weight and rigidity should be to make it a bit friendlier – which is why we went steel for the floor etc. Not sure yet whether we’ll achieve that, but that’s the plan!

maxlouis

26-11-2015, 07:35

9018

I bought these louvers from Italy (and I know they're on upside down!) and they were supposed be correct but the gaps between the end of the slots are too wide and the the shape of the vent is too curved, rather than being more pointed like the originals. That will always annoy me! Anyone got any ideas as to where/how I can get a better set made - or possibly modify these ones as they are well made and the correct dimensions - but aesthetically don't cut it. Many thanks,

Griff

26-11-2015, 09:18

maxlouis

26-11-2015, 23:53

Much appreciated; thank you Griiff and we are now in contact.
Best,
Matt

Griff

27-11-2015, 00:39

This is probably the picture that would have helped, regards Griff

maxlouis

27-11-2015, 01:11

9022
This is probably the picture that would have helped, regards Griff
Thanks Griff - but this is what I want to aim for for somehow. I think that it really does make a lot of difference

Best,

monoposto

28-11-2015, 01:23

Does the tub have steel bodywork, or is it fiberglass? I'm not familiar with hawk cars... cool project btw!

Griff

28-11-2015, 01:32

Matt, I've sent you a pm, regards Griff

ProtoTipo

28-11-2015, 09:45

Does the tub have steel bodywork, or is it fiberglass? I'm not familiar with hawk cars... cool project btw!

All Stratos (kit) replicas have fibreglass* centre tubs and steel spaceframe chassis.

*There's an odd one or two made from other composites, but no steel.

maxlouis

05-12-2015, 23:13

90429043Pleased with the way this lot has turned out; thanks Chris!

ProtoTipo

06-12-2015, 09:12

Pleased with the way this lot has turned out; thanks Chris!

Thanks Matt, that horn button was a labour of love?!

maxlouis

06-12-2015, 09:47

'I can get a better set made - or possibly modify these ones as they are well made and the correct dimensions '

Matt, give Marfab Welding a call 07903 460691, bloke is called Mark Milne, big Lancia fan, belongs to the Lancia owners club, and has done quite a bit of alloy fabrication on both mine and Rene's Hawks, including the under tray pictured, hope this helps Griff

Thanks Griff for putting me in touch with Mark - obviously a highly skilled guy. He said the solution would be to get a new tool made up to cut and fold the correct louver dimensions and then start again with fresh sheet aluminium. Whilst that will be a fairly expensive solution to make one set (anyone else interested in some?) it's likely to be my only option as I gather that the 'off the shelf' louver cutters currently available will not cut a slot wide enough - or with the original tapered profile. I s'pose doing that will mean that the panels end up less rigid (lots of original cars seem to have slightly 'wavy' front panels) but presumably wider gaps would aid cooling - which wouldn't be a bad thing.

Stratie.fr

06-12-2015, 13:13

A great lot and a nice job with Horn Button!
I like that :)
Congrats Guys!

ProtoTipo

17-02-2016, 15:54

A great lot and a nice job with Horn Button!
I like that :)
Congrats Guys!

Frederic,
'See PM.
Chris

maxlouis

14-03-2018, 00:18

126941269512696126971269812699

maxlouis

14-03-2018, 00:20

Might not be going anywhere, but at least I can now stop (even if I still can't work out which way is up...)

maxlouis

14-03-2018, 00:26

127111271012709127121271312715

maxlouis

14-03-2018, 00:58

127181271912720

maxlouis

14-03-2018, 01:44

127351273612737127381273912740

LPH_UK

14-03-2018, 01:45

Very nice!:cool:

ProtoTipo

14-03-2018, 09:03

Who did the trimming, Matt?

maxlouis

14-03-2018, 10:12

Who did the trimming, Matt?

I was recommended two guys in Italy, Turin and they did do an excellent job. Will PM their email address Chris.

Stratos Fear

14-03-2018, 11:15

great project , great car - good choice of colour too ! (I think I should be taking notes as mine will be a Stradale - in the same colour)

maxlouis

14-03-2018, 12:12

12741The colour was difficult - apparently the original colours were Lechler paint Codes (although no warranty as to accuracy of this info...):

Blu 2644
Azzurro Chiaro 2645

After lots of faffing about we tracked down the light blue and in the 'flesh' it looked wrong. Too much purple, but maybe that was the 'out of the box' and they faded over time. The only genuine, unrestored (I think) car that I have ever seen in this colour is in the Righini collection (pic). So, with some trial and error, we made it up to try and match that car. Still not entirely convinced that it shouldn’t be the darker blue!

Stratos Fear

14-03-2018, 14:18

The Righini car colour looks great . The Lister Bell version is RAL 5015 which is maybe a fraction darker but hard to tell without having them side by side.

Great project and please keep us updated - and maybe come and see us at the Stoneleigh Show on 6th or 7th May ?

Stratie.fr

14-03-2018, 21:49

Wow...fantastic job and amazing parts especially wheels and engine...Looks great in Blue...my favorite one at the moment!!
Well done...Hope to see you and your car at Stoneleigh when finished!

maxlouis

14-03-2018, 23:28

127511275312752

Sounds great - thank you :)
Not sure if you guys will share my interest, but am also restoring a 246 and have been struck by some of the similarities - and differences - between the two cars (presumably not accidental). Apologies if these pics are not correctly orientated - and no idea how to sort that little monkey - bah!

Fingers

15-03-2018, 07:33

12712

Looking really good, I love this shot, you can really see why it looked so futuristic back in the 70's.

pim

15-03-2018, 17:37

Could you tell me what paint code this Blue is, i would like something like that for my Alpine A110 Also what brake calipers did yoy use front and rear?
Best regards Pim

127181271912720

maxlouis

15-03-2018, 23:20

The brakes are ATE at the back (from the 246 and 308 - same as the originals I think) and the fronts - I should know - but I believe they are '70's Girling competition callipers that were remade a few years ago. The blue is our mix of Lechler Code Azzurro Chiaro 2645, but it has more white in it.
Best, Matt

pim

16-03-2018, 10:53

Thanks Matt.

The brakes are ATE at the back (from the 246 and 308 - same as the originals I think) and the fronts - I should know - but I believe they are '70's Girling competition callipers that were remade a few years ago. The blue is our mix of Lechler Code Azzurro Chiaro 2645, but it has more white in it.
Best, Matt

maxlouis

27-07-2020, 10:35

Some progress.165831658416585165861658716588

LPH_UK

27-07-2020, 12:04

Superb work. There is something so 'pure' about the stradale shape with no roof/boot spoiler.

ProtoTipo

27-07-2020, 12:43

The Dino stick gets round the need for a gearbox end 'gate'.
'Stradale uses a Beta stick joint, and no stick 'gate'.

maxlouis

27-07-2020, 15:35

You're right Chris - we were going to go that route but then realised it wasn't possible because we had filled all the available space with cooling and aircon pipes - so this was the compromise. And interestingly the arrangement was common to at least two original cars that I have seen - although no idea why they did that in period.

The Dino stick gets round the need for a gearbox end 'gate'.
'Stradale uses a Beta stick joint, and no stick 'gate'.

ProtoTipo

27-07-2020, 15:46

You're right Chris - we were going to go that route but then realised it wasn't possible because we had filled all the available space with cooling and aircon pipes - so this was the compromise. And interestingly the arrangement was common to at least two original cars that I have seen - although no idea why they did that in period.

You're right Matt, certainly the 1240 and 0003 cars had the Ferrari stick, and I think maybe the 1972 Turin show car, too.
No, I don't know why they used the Beta stick joint in the end, either?

maxlouis

27-07-2020, 15:48

Superb work. There is something so 'pure' about the stradale shape with no roof/boot spoiler.
I agree - but I do wonder how much stability the car will lose without spoilers - if I ever manage to get this on the road, that is..

ProtoTipo

27-07-2020, 16:04

I agree - but I do wonder how much stability the car will lose without spoilers - if I ever manage to get this on the road, that is..

I could't tell with the orange Hawk I had with no spoilers (or louvres), compared to the blue Hawk that had a roof wing and rear spoiler.
The lack of rear spoiler helps a lot with rearward vision, but that combined with no rear louvres on the orange car was bliss.

maxlouis

21-11-2020, 01:28

17042
Only another 6 years before its finished... :)

maxlouis

21-11-2020, 01:53

17043170441704517046170471704817049
Tanks finished, engine in, odds and sods done = interior and wiring next

Griff

21-11-2020, 14:26

Matt, what did you do with the louvre panels eventually? did you get a replacement set, or did you further modify the Italian set?

Looks really pretty by the way!!

AndyGuyton

21-11-2020, 15:53

Bloody gorgeous!

maxlouis

21-11-2020, 17:31

17050
Thanks Griff - the louvres were made from scratch in the end - a long and and very laborious process that involved a lot of swearing...

Matt, what did you do with the louvre panels eventually? did you get a replacement set, or did you further modify the Italian set?

Looks really pretty by the way!!

Fingers

21-11-2020, 19:58

Wow! I love the colour, and those stripes look really good?

westonTB

21-11-2020, 22:57

Wow... what else can you add! Just gorgeous.

Willtord

22-11-2020, 12:45

I'm mesmerised by the gloss reflections on that paintwork! usually a giveaway to substandard work. Looks perfect!
Equally mesmerised by the workmanship which has obviously gone into the louvred panel, that's craftsmanship, right there. The fit and finish is amazing, unfortunately becoming a lost art these days.
Might I enquire who you used for both paint and that louvred panel please?
Best wishes,
Mark