View Full Version : Real or Replica?
It’s one of the first questions people ask you, “Is it a real one?”.
If you’re not a specialist it’s hard to tell with a replica, whether it is a GT40, a Cobra, ‘C’ type Jaguar, Ferrari, Lamborghini or any of the other replica/look-alikes available.
With no tax disc required nowadays it is even harder to tell that the flash Ferrari you are looking at is actually a Toyota under the skin, with fake panels, engine cover and wide wheels.
Of course the Stratos was a kit car built by Lancia to go rallying using many parts from the Fiat empire:
1 Ferrari Dino engine, wheel hubs, Daytona rear number plate light, dashboard air vents
2 Fiat X1/9 headlights, door handles and catches, body catches, modified radiator and fans
3 Lancia Fulvia side indicator lights
4 Fiat 850 Rear lights, interior door handles
5 Fiat 124 various instruments, steering column stalks, lights, interior mirror.
6 Lancia Beta bootlid knob, gear knob, door mirror
So how do you tell a replica Stratos from the real thing? A replica can be bought for £10-30K, an original 10 – 20 times that. You need a check list to tell the Difference.
1 Is it Left hand Drive? All Stratos were, there have been RHD conversions, but RHD usually means a replica. Of course there are many LHD replicas too.
2 Stick a magnet on the roof. Front, rear and doors of the Stratos are glassfibre, cockpit in steel. Most replicas are all fibreglass, although some steel (Gartrac?) copies have been made and steel cockpits have been re-manufactured.
3 The engine is the Ferrari Dino 2.4 V6. Maglioli is reputed to have also fitted the 308 V8 engine, visually identical and certainly a straightforward swap.
4 Wheels are Ferrari 5 stud 104 mm PCD. 4 stud means replica.
5 Original Stratos came in choice of 5 colours, but of course many re-sprays and liveries abound. Competition regulations require the removal or covering of racing numbers on finishing or retiring from an event. Old Rally plates belong on the garage wall, not the car!
6 If you are looking for an original car, it does come down to provenance, checking of chassis numbers etc. Factory cars re-used chassis numbers after re-shells and less reputable sellers can falsify things as well, due to the sums of money involved.
So which replica is closest to the original?
Most would say the Hawk/Transformer.
Litton/Corse models (no longer available) have been built to a very high standard and certainly pass muster as replicas, but chassis changes (improvements?) make them easy to tell from the real thing. Body shape is harder to achieve the correct finish.
Similarly the Lister Bell departs from the original design in many ways, from the shape of the body to the layout and use of components.
After 40 years of course it is easy to improve on the original design of the Stratos.
Everyone to their own of course, but if it has power steering, air conditioning, radio, electric door locks, bicycle door mirrors, LED lights, it’s not a Stratos….
Ready for corrections, disagreements, abuse…
Struan
:rolleyes:
Strat Fan
15-02-2015, 21:51
Quite simply if its made in England, has a space frame chassis & a grp centre tub then it is not a Strato's:cool:
Tends to be the intro question I'm asked Struan.... My fav reply is "What do you think"? Breaks the ice............
Closest to the original?
I chose a Hawk for historic reasons. Not a simple build but damn worth the challenge. Vince's recreation is pretty cool :-)
LB is a simpler / modern kit car approach. Takes the hassle out of the build........
Closest to the original ??????????????????????????
I remember this subject had been debated in another thread ???????????????????????????????
Is it really necessary to redo all this UNnecessary debate ? as none of any KIT can be compared to the real ????????????????????????????
Strat Fan
15-02-2015, 22:48
Closest to the original ??????????????????????????
I remember this subject had been debated in another thread ???????????????????????????????
Is it really necessary to redo all this UNnecessary debate ? as none of any KIT can be compared to the real ????????????????????????????
The forum needs some spice, some activity, some conversation, what it doesn't need is a "mines better than your's" debacle like on the old forum.
There are choices in kit supplier, that is not a bad thing. Each individual chooses according to their own personal requirements. historically the Hawk won out over the Corse because the majority preferred that it looked similar to an original Strato's under the skin as well as above it.
Vince's Hawk is exceptional, that is beyond dispute, it is an example to not only those who are building a Strato's replica but to anyone who wishes to build a kit car of what can be achieved with a generous dose of thought, time & ability. It is possibly the closest that anyone has come to replicating an original car, LHD could have sealed the deal as would have the Dino engine but I suspect that would have rendered it less usable.
There are other very nice examples under construction too, Ducatiman, Chris C, John H, Graham H etc, I believe Dave H's replica car is very good too.
Any prospective customer should assess all available products in the flesh & speak to the manufacturers directly, this will in turn allow them to make an informed decision as to what suits their personal requirements.
maxlouis
16-02-2015, 00:38
This thread appeals and I think, for me, it is about recreating a fantasy in a kind of personal, usable way. I had a picture of a Stratos on my wall when I was 15 and the idea of being able to replicate that - and possibly even refine it - without departing too much from the original concept is very attractive. We all invest a great deal of time, energy and thought into that process which, in itself, is very satisfying. And in practical terms maybe ultimately more enjoyable as a 'real world car', the sort that one doesn't have to worry about in quite the same way as being saddled with the custodianship (that is a word...!) of an irreplaceable original. In fact, my Stratos (Hawk) will be my everyday-ish transport and it will hopefully work properly and I plan to appreciate it in the mundane world of the M40 traffic jams and station car parks in a way that I could never enjoy a real Stratos, 246 or other genuine Dino that undeniably shares its lineage - I'd be worried sick!
The forum needs some spice, some activity, some conversation, what it doesn't need is a "mines better than your's" debacle like on the old forum.
There are choices in kit supplier, that is not a bad thing. Each individual chooses according to their own personal requirements. historically the Hawk won out over the Corse because the majority preferred that it looked similar to an original Strato's under the skin as well as above it.
Vince's Hawk is exceptional, that is beyond dispute, it is an example to not only those who are building a Strato's replica but to anyone who wishes to build a kit car of what can be achieved with a generous dose of thought, time & ability. It is possibly the closest that anyone has come to replicating an original car, LHD could have sealed the deal as would have the Dino engine but I suspect that would have rendered it less usable.
There are other very nice examples under construction too, Ducatiman, Chris C, John H, Graham H etc, I believe Dave H's replica car is very good too.
Any prospective customer should assess all available products in the flesh & speak to the manufacturers directly, this will in turn allow them to make an informed decision as to what suits their personal requirements.
ducatiman
16-02-2015, 01:14
Not this again.....................:confused::confused::confused:
The selection of manufacturer is the choice of the builder and his reasons for that selection should be respected, what is more interesting is watching the development and progress of each individual build as no two replica's are the same. If someone wants to select and install the latest available V6 engine with air conditioning so what, and if an individual wants to get that original switch and tacho for his dash, good for him..................We all have a reason why we want to build a Stratos replica and most of the time is that we love the look of the car. Look at it, for a design that is over 40 years old it is outstanding....................
All our replica's are also built within the constraints of an individuals skills, available time and the biggest factor will always be the budget to complete the project...............
So lets just congratulate an individual who builds his replica and gets it on the road, the joy that it will bring to him and others around...............
monoposto
16-02-2015, 01:55
I've been on here just about a year. I've also looked through a ton of build threads and have an LB on order. In all honesty, aside from the motor, steering wheel and chassis, I have a hard time telling the difference from a lot of the cars. Of course I can tell the difference between steel and fiberglass, but from a visual standpoint it isn't easy to tell the difference.
OK
Apologise with my post ; may be I wrote that because on the other one stating about "which kit is more close to the real "
http://www.stratosec.com/Forum/showthread.php/2675-My-car-of-30-years
I understood the discuss started to "deviate" to some "hard " debate ???? ( If I remember ?????)
Otherwise my English language not being enought skilled for this sort of thread I will only read other members opinions !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
God! Not more electioneering.....
"There now follows (another) party political broadcast on behalf of the Hawk owners party".
Anyway there was me thinking the forum had gone a bit quiet and tame. Still absolutely invaluable of course!
And then along comes Struan with a carefully constructed contribution to stimulate things again. Well done that man.
ProtoTipo
16-02-2015, 13:16
With no tax disc required nowadays it is even harder to tell that the flash Ferrari you are looking at is actually a Toyota under the skin, with fake panels, engine cover and wide wheels.
That was my favourite pastime at Stoneleigh in May. So that's another thing gone.
I did notice in the last couple of years that a lot more kit cars are correctly registered. More than I expected.
NoCorseChris
16-02-2015, 13:23
Quite simply if its made in England, has a space frame chassis & a grp centre tub then it is not a Strato's:cool:
I'd go one further than that. If it wasn't made in Italy, by Lancia, back in the 70's then it's not a Strato's. Anything else is a replica of a Stratos. If a particular replica is 'worthy' or not is a far too subjective topic to have a definitively right or wrong answer IMO.
I do love a good dose of dead-horse-flogging.....maybe one day it'll get back up if we keep whacking it??
I'd go one further than that. If it wasn't made in Italy, by Lancia, back in the 70's then it's not a Strato's. Anything else is a replica of a Stratos. If a particular replica is 'worthy' or not is a far too subjective topic to have a definitively right or wrong answer IMO.
I do love a good dose of dead-horse-flogging.....maybe one day it'll get back up if we keep whacking it??
................my sentiments entirely !......... love it Chris................. LOL
ProtoTipo
16-02-2015, 13:59
No, this forum's a dead horse.
There's nothing more to say.
Darkspeed
16-02-2015, 14:40
Litton Corse i with a Honda engine and Stormtrooper in Drag on the doors, Q plate and CORSE i on the back - closest replica there ever was bar-none indisputable fact definite confirmed and certified.
Next question.
I've stirred up a few strong opinions!
Replicas can take many forms, from the body kits covering a different donor to mimic an original, to the bespoke body/chassis re-creations of vintage classics.
There are some superb 'D' type Jaguars and the like out there fastidiously created from scratch.
Firms will even cast you engines and cylinder heads from original drawings.
The Stratos kits stop short of re-creating the steel centre tub. I wonder how much that would cost? Uneconomic for the UK market I am sure.
I still think a set of Stratos panels could be grafted onto a Fiat X1/9....
:rolleyes:
Struan
NoCorseChris
17-02-2015, 10:49
This topic is dangerously close to trolling TBH. It's always emotive and very much so for some.
Yes, by definition the most authentic replica is the one that replicates the original, as closely as possible, warts and all.
At least we are all agreed that the best Stratos kit is/was the Transformer/Hawk/Allora/Corse/ListerBell. (Delete as appropriate)
:rolleyes:
Struan
The Slug
17-02-2015, 11:13
At least we are all agreed that the best Stratos kit is/was the Transformer/Hawk/Allora/Corse/ListerBell. (Delete as appropriate)
:rolleyes:
Struan
Don't you mean the "Best Stratos" is the kit you own, or used to, or going to own!........lol
Strat Fan
17-02-2015, 11:23
How should this one be classified? real, recreation, continuation or replica?7853
Allora#2
17-02-2015, 11:33
Hi Guys,
there is no to delete! i think every Kit is nearly authentic like his production time,
the Allora was one the first and not so bad for that time,
today the technique from glass fibre and machining parts and also frame work are now above standard and immaculate.
BTW. Craig, it's Real :)
The Slug
17-02-2015, 11:36
Did it leave the Lancia factory in Italy looking like that?
If not its not original... (fan the flames)
This topic is dangerously close to trolling TBH.......................
There's nothing more to say. ......................
Ditto on both counts !
The Slug
17-02-2015, 15:11
Definition of Trolling just in case your not sure...
trolling (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trolling&defid=895504)
The art of deliberately, cleverly, and secretly pissing people off, usually via the internet, using dialogue.
ProtoTipo
17-02-2015, 15:40
I'm guessing Struan is fed up with the lack of forum discussion, rather than trolling (with not real malice at all) for trolling's sake?
The Slug
17-02-2015, 17:29
The forum is here for all to make use of it, free users or members its just a tool like the web site, you can't make people use it.
It has been said in the past and I will say it again the Club is about the people not just the cars, they are as interesting if not more so that the cars.
If folk dont feel comfortable with talking about stuff, any stuff, daft or otherwise for whatever the reason on this forum then you have to ask why?
Sando (Sorry for singling you out, but credit where due..) has single handedly tried to inject some humour into the site with "Fantastic Photos of the world" 107 of you replied but 8502 had a look!!!! So what happened to the other 8395 views?
The Chit Chat section that was requested has only 11 threads and 200 posts.
I think this site is TOO serious, you just scare casual people away who don't know the difference between a Hawk or Listerbell or any other, and think it might be a rebodied fiat, or as I was asked so this is an MX5 underneath.
All they know is it look's nice!
A Club is meant to a fun thing to belong to.....
so here is a question for you all :
~Are you doing your bit your make it more interesting or fun?~
If not how are you going to try?
ProtoTipo
17-02-2015, 17:34
As I said, I'm just guessing.
Not stating a fact or making a criticism.
NoCorseChris
18-02-2015, 10:24
I should say, my comment about this topic being dangerously close to trolling was just an observation on what has been and likely always will be a topic that tends to generate polarised and er, enthusiasticly held views, not a criticism of Struan (or trolling!). Apologies, as that wasn't clear.
The Slug
18-02-2015, 10:38
I don't think anyone was having a go at anyone else, Struan's post only served to drum up a bit of conversation on the forum and good for that.....
We need more lively topics.....just lets not have Religion or Politics...or we will be at war with each other....lol
Maybe we are all to politically correct to say anything these days.
Maybe we are all to politically correct to say anything these days.
Who? Moi?!
ChrisCar6
18-02-2015, 12:34
The Stratos kits stop short of re-creating the steel centre tub. I wonder how much that would cost? Uneconomic for the UK market I am sure.
Struan
It has been done. By Gartrac legitimately, and allegedly in France unscrupulously.
NoCorseChris
18-02-2015, 13:06
I don't think anyone was having a go at anyone else, Struan's post only served to drum up a bit of conversation on the forum and good for that.....
We need more lively topics.....just lets not have Religion or Politics...or we will be at war with each other....lol
Maybe we are all to politically correct to say anything these days.
That was my interpretation and intent certainly. Conversation.
I don't often intend to piss people off, but I do manage to do it by accident with frequency and aplomb.
Stratie.fr
18-02-2015, 14:08
It has been done. By Gartrac legitimately, and allegedly in France unscrupulously.
In France there are many things that are unscrupulous and non-economic
That 's maybe why this country is going wrong !
But I don't say much more about politics I wouldn't to be politically uncorrect! Lol!!!
In France there are many things that are unscrupulous and non-economic
That 's maybe why this country is going wrong !
But I don't say much more about politics I wouldn't to be politically uncorrect! Lol!!!
Albion is perfidious too, of course ...
:rolleyes:
Frederic,
he says "Albion". Not Albi on......!
Albion being an old word for "England" is it?
Yes indeed, an old French insult!
Perfidious Albion England or Britain considered as treacherous in international affairs, in a rendering of the French phrase la perfide Albion, said to have been first used by the Marquis de Ximenès (1726–1817). Both terms are recorded in English from the mid 19th century.
But we are all friends now?
:rolleyes:
Struan
Stratie.fr
18-02-2015, 16:12
Yes John I remembered this old insult for England from our french frog eater!
Of course Struan we are all friends !! Maybe not if England wins against France in six nations! ;)
The Slug
18-02-2015, 17:07
That was my interpretation and intent certainly. Conversation.
I don't often intend to piss people off, but I do manage to do it by accident with frequency and aplomb.
Boy do I know what you mean Chris.....you say something one way and its read in another and before you know it....BOOM...
So who is going to knock us up some steel centre tubs?
It can't be that hard...:o
I would have said easier than ever to get them made now. Surely?
Drawings for laser cuts, sets of panels cut and folded. Somebody with an English Wheel to knock out the roof panel.
Some laser cut mdf formers to jig it all, and somebody proficient with a spot welder.
Simples.....
Now who would let us make paper templates off their original?
ProtoTipo
18-02-2015, 19:00
The 'Bonhams' chassis made £40k.
It's a huge amount of someone's time to pay for. I'd hate to think what someone would need to charge, even for a small batch.
What would you be happy to pay for one?
I would have said easier than ever to get them made now. Surely?
Drawings for laser cuts, sets of panels cut and folded. Somebody with an English Wheel to knock out the roof panel.
Some laser cut mdf formers to jig it all, and somebody proficient with a spot welder.
Simples.....
Now who would let us make paper templates off their original?
Hello
As thread is coming back to more "tecnical" discussion ( LOL :rolleyes::rolleyes:;)) Am back again !! RELOL !!!
Don"t think so John ; even we are now on more modern ways to obtain parts ( Laser cut , 3D printing etc)
Building such a steel monocoque will still remain something verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry expensive !!!!
There is avery interesting sample to examine and watch, it's the Ford GT40 ; there are many good "replica's" with tube welded chassis panelled ( like the existing Stratos replica suppliers)
but there are only 2 or 3 ( may be maximum 4 am not really sure ) suppliers able to manufacture steel welded monocoques and these units are so expensive that most suppliers do not supply those as kit but only as rolling or turn key cars
Just check at Gelscoe or , Superformance prices and you will understand that level of price is very very far from Hawk or LB price list !! Those monocoque are more dedied to replace items on real cars or even create "new old cars" as now HTP papers are given to these "millionaires" customers in order to increase number of racinng cars in some Historics championships ( ELMS or watever historic serie) !!
It's not enought to have some panels laser cut and folded !!!
Beside the fact many of those parts need to be pressed ( and not only rolled with an english Wheel !!) ; to assemble such steel monocoque you will need a much more accurate and stronger jig than simple MDF panel
In top of this you will need too, at least 4 or may be 5/6 different spot welders with cooper ends differently shaped to reach all tricky spaces all around the roof and door areas
So just calculate :
1/Time spend to redo a complete new drawing of the tub
2 / money to machine minimum 15 to 20 complicated tooling press for windscreen surrounding , roof ,front and rear door panels all panels for the bulkhead and sills
3/ laser cut all panels AND rear tubes ; find someone who will accept to press a very very small batch of panels ( rare to find nowadays with the actual economy )
4/ Built a very strong steel table plus all 8or 10mm thick supports to be mecanically fit on this table to guaranty an accurate and strong position when welding panels and then rear frane and then be able to unmold that lot of welding whithout distorsion !
5/ spend time to weld all the stuff correctly ( at least twice than anormal tube chassis!!)
6/ Finally give to that steel monocoque an mandatory "Cataphorése" protection to be sure that you protect definitivly blind areas and spot welded lines
Try to do a total and you will have the same prohibitive price these GT40 monocoque manufacturers are asking for the same work
The fact is that price is only the result of a too big ratio in beetween the hudge investment done and the too many hours of labor to assemble one item compared to the very small amount of tubs done by year !!!!
So to my humble opinon; yes we are on the 21th century with so modern and amazing new tecnology but Halas sometime this modern tecnology is not enought to produce at reasonable price that nice chassis these italian engineers from Lancia have produced ( probably into fiat welding lines ??)
This said I think too that a single crazy and courageaous builder is able with a lot of skills to built his own steel tub if he is able to built wood tools from some good hand drawings of remolded epoxy forms and then "hammered "one by one all specific parts plus using only of spot welder with moveable cooper weld ends etc etc . just one question ? who is able to achieve such work and how long it will take ???
7863786478657866
The 'Bonhams' chassis made £40k.
It's a huge amount of someone's time to pay for. I'd hate to think what someone would need to charge, even for a small batch.
What would you be happy to pay for one?
I would think there would be a market for an accurate steel shell at around £40k.The market for extremely authentic replicas seems strong these days, perhaps Gerry could get the people who produce his aluminium Cobra shell in Poland to take a look. That would be different.
Yes 40K for the Monocoque ....
and then ?????
can you add the right price for ;
original copies for rear uprights from Marvic ?
a complete set of Magnesium wheels ?
Rear set of hubs ( advertised on the net at 12900 euros )
set of historic AP calipers at more than 10000pounds the set
And then
where to find the exact Dino ferrari engine ? just ask a quote to those specialists in north Italy !!! OUCH
Where to find the so rare gearbox ? No more avaiblemaincase foundries and gears are sold as if they where machined into gold billets
ChrisCar6
19-02-2015, 01:35
Oh stop being negative Michel! :p
HA HA nooooo but realistic !! LOL
By chance all replica's built from Hawk or listerbell or watever older kits are very very nice and probably suffice to give a lot of fun to their owners !!!
Am wondering if a steel monocoque will add more to that pleasure you all get when doing those excellent club meetings ?
Does a steel monocoque will help more a fellow like Phil to do so well in Brittania tour ?
All these builts are unique one by one and this is great !!!
I would not argue with any point you make Michel. Your experience is far greater than mine.
I didn't say "easy" though, just easier.
Also I don't think it would be necessary to actually press panels, except for the sake of 99.9% replication. You could build up most of the pressed panels from separate components.
But the points you make bring us right back to the core thread subject. "What is real and what is replica". The hard truth is that, as it has already been said, anything that was not made in Italy in the 70's is a replica. What we are discussing here is the degree of replication. The Gartrac shells and/or the alleged shells produced in France or wherever, are to date probably the nearest replication.
It is that very article, the degree of replication which each individual decides for themselves.
I can understand the desire to get as close as possible. AND admire it.
It's just not for me.
There has to be a compromise factoring in cost, practicality, safety and performance and all those factors are considered from a personal viewpoint.
I could not spend as much as some people have and not be frightened to death of taking it anywhere.
I could not use some of the power that others spend so much money on... But on the other hand because I wasn't risking so much money, maybe I could go just as fast?!
And very definitely I couldn't worry about if my mudflaps were laser cut or hacked about with a stanley knife!
Each to his own and respect what others do.
Yes John ! I agree 100/100 with you on every term of your post
"Each to his own and respect what others do."
This is a very very nice phrase everybody need to remind when they are watching to Replicas !
NoCorseChris
19-02-2015, 11:38
Here here.
The Slug
19-02-2015, 13:39
And very definitely I couldn't worry about if my mudflaps were laser cut or hacked about with a stanley knife!
OH NO!!! :(......
John....... are you saying my stanley knife ones are not good enough... Dam and blast it....!
Back to the drawing board.....lol
colin artus
19-02-2015, 15:32
Back when Gartrac were doing their first Stratos shell (about '87) they were talking of a price of around £14k , which was a bit optimistic as a year later it was £17k and in '91 they were asking £23k for a still unsold shell. Bear in mind that you could still get a Stradale for under £40k in those days ('92 was quite a sharp recession).
Back to the drawing board.....lol
Drawing board? Are you sure you can't find some expensive computer program to use instead...?!
mel lewis
19-02-2015, 19:21
"Each to his own and respect what others do."
This should be a new motto for the club ???
I know of someone, he may well be known to members on here, who had a Stratos built with what I believe were all original parts. He went to the Lancia factory after it was announced they were stopping the Stratos rally campaign (in favour of the 131 Mirafiori) and apparently bought every item needed to complete a full car. He then had all the bits shipped back to the UK over weeks and months. It was many years later that he had the car put together by I think Tony Worswick Engineering. Is that a real one if it didn't roll out of the Lancia factory complete? ;)
ChrisCar6
19-02-2015, 22:54
"Each to his own and respect what others do."
This should be a new motto for the club ???
Nice idea Mel
Guy Mayers
20-02-2015, 00:15
Gerry gave me this a few years back. I have no idea how long he'd had it, where he got it or if this company actually made Stratos chassis. Din't do much research into it at the time as whatever the price, can't afford it! I've also seen various outer tub panels on eBay.it over the years. Side panels, roof and outer sill skins. Never seen scuttles/screens/inner panels though.
Guy
Guy Mayers
20-02-2015, 00:20
Also saw this at a rally prep shop on a trip to Rally Legends back in 2011. Repair parts are obviously out there but are there enough to construct an entire tub?
Guy
Guy Mayers
20-02-2015, 00:31
Looks like Marchesi & Co are still around....
http://www.marchesimodena.com/en/visualizza_prodotti.asp?id_categoria=37&categ=FRAMES%20AND%20BASES%20FOR%20INDUSTRIAL%20AND%20AGRICULTURAL%20MACHINES
Hope this isn'g about to cost someone a fortune?
Guy
Speaking of replicas, here's another replica from NZ. http://youtu.be/hzNQUPR73Hw
I visited this workshop when this GTO was just a chassis, you wouldn't know it's even there, just a couple of old chicken sheds next to the main road.
Looks like Marchesi & Co are still around....
http://www.marchesimodena.com/en/visualizza_prodotti.asp?id_categoria=37&categ=FRAMES%20AND%20BASES%20FOR%20INDUSTRIAL%20AND%20AGRICULTURAL%20MACHINES
Hope this isn'g about to cost someone a fortune?
Guy
They're agricultural engineers, I could try and put it through the books against tax....
Reckon the accountant would pick it up though...!
:mad:
Struan
Probably more likely to get away with it with something that says Lamborgini on it Struan?
Fiat do tractors, of course ...
:confused:
ProtoTipo
22-02-2015, 10:15
Repair parts are obviously out there but are there enough to construct an entire tub?
Guy
Here's another repair part:
.... and of course you tell a replica from a real one, because it is better made... :rolleyes:
Struan
FiveHundred
28-02-2015, 17:16
.... and of course you tell a replica from a real one, because it is better made... :rolleyes:
Struan
Better panel gaps…..
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