Vehicle Road Tax

[SUSIT]

Guys a lot of you will know this but rules re road tax and car insurance have changed. Once you insure you vehicle for road use you have 14 days to tax it, failure may result in a fine (£100 I think)

Now all very well but if you have no MOT you cant tax it and unless you can trailer car to MOT station you need to insure it, great if it passes but not so good if you get a fail that needs a bit of work and parts that are hard to obtain! You can cancel your insurance and SORN car again but most companies will charge for that. As far as I can see they got you all ways.


Happy motoring


Steve

[john]

That's an interesting one there Steve.
I insured Frederic's car with Adrian Flux before it went on the road and was quite clear to them that the car was not "on the road" but in the final stages of build. I wanted to make sure it was covered as at that point it was "stealable".
Adrian Flux never gave out any warning of that.
Of course as soon as it was MOT'd I went through the DVLA taxation procedure on line.
It was certainly more than 14 days after I insured it before I MOT'd and "taxed" it.
Nobody has got back to me yet.
To be honest, I cannot see how they can possibly make any prosecution stick on this, unless of course there is a specific type of insurance which lets you insure the fire and theft risk without road cover.
Adrian Flux never mentioned this to me.

After all, they cannot prevent you from insuring against losses. Human Rights Act!
I'd guess that unless it was specified somewhere that you cannot insure for road risks without tax too then they could not proceed.
Ain't life getting complicated!

[Steve C]

Steve

Same issue with pre-IVA insirance: Adrian Flux insured the car without MoT or Tax no problem.

Steve

[ProtoTipo]

While we're on the subject.
The thing that could have caught me out a couple of years ago was this:

If you buy a car that is currently SORNed, you must re SORN or tax the vehicle as soon as the change of owner happens.
I don't know if that has changed or got worse since we lost tax discs?
I don't own a car of any type, so I'm a bit out of touch.

[SUSIT]

I phoned DVLA and they didnt give any hint as to a way round this rule, not sure when it came in, I had to insure my Porsche 944 to take it for MOT (which i knew it would fail as needs CV joint gaiter) but to see what else would cause an issue (Fuel pipes are looking a bit iffy and drivers side sill is a possible this year) but these items may take weeks to sort out as I need to find someone reliable to do the work and hope they can fit it in. My only option as i see it is to suspend the insurance and incurr a admin charge for doing so and then re SORN the car.

[catswhiskers]

Steve

Same issue with pre-IVA insirance: Adrian Flux insured the car without MoT or Tax no problem.

Steve
I did similar while building my LB. As soon as kit arrived I insured it with Hagerty on a 'Laid up/Project build' insurance. This gives full theft & fire cover etc. but just not road use. I then added road use from the day of the IVA test.

Mick

By the way, nice to hear you're back in the fold Steve.

[john]

Right Mick. Sounds like you need to speak to someone at the Broker's who knows about this option when insuring a kit then.
I made it quite clear that I wasn't going to use the car immediately but was not offered this option.
If taking that option keeps you off the DVLA ( or is it VOSA?) database of "on the road" cars, and away from a requirement to tax the vehicle, then it's important to be told about it!

[NoCorseChris]

Can you not just SORN it while you fix it and leave the insurance in place then? That's instant and zero cost, other than losing the full benefit of the insurance of course.

There is certainly a requirement for a registered vehicle to be either taxed or SORNed, sounds like they are just closing another hole rather than making a fundamental change?

[SUSIT]

Can you not just SORN it while you fix it and leave the insurance in place then? That's instant and zero cost, other than losing the full benefit of the insurance of course.

There is certainly a requirement for a registered vehicle to be either taxed or SORNed, sounds like they are just closing another hole rather than making a fundamental change?


Hi Chris

You can no longer SORN a vehicle that is insured for road use.

Steve

[SUSIT]

I did similar while building my LB. As soon as kit arrived I insured it with Hagerty on a 'Laid up/Project build' insurance. This gives full theft & fire cover etc. but just not road use. I then added road use from the day of the IVA test.

Mick

By the way, nice to hear you're back in the fold Steve.

Thanks Mick

hope to catch up with Nottingham crowd later this year.

cheers

Steve

[threep]

Hi Chris

You can no longer SORN a vehicle that is insured for road use.

Steve

Why do you say that Steve?

I've been looking at the following. http://www.findlaw.co.uk/law/motoring/vehicle_tax/sorn/9940.html

There's nothing there to say that if you have valid insurance you cannot SORN it. If you have no valid insurance it must be SORNd. If you have no tax it must be SORNd. Nothing to say you cannot SORN it if you have valid insurance.

[turbonutter]

I have SORN'd my car twice this year and during the process there is nothing to say that I have to uninsure the car for road use.

[SUSIT]

Why do you say that Steve?

I've been looking at the following. http://www.findlaw.co.uk/law/motoring/vehicle_tax/sorn/9940.html

There's nothing there to say that if you have valid insurance you cannot SORN it. If you have no valid insurance it must be SORNd. If you have no tax it must be SORNd. Nothing to say you cannot SORN it if you have valid insurance.


Hi Gary

I suspect the article you refer to is not a recent one as it talks about renewing your SORN every year, that has not been the case for at least a couple of years (I have 3 cars on SORN)

It is to do with continous insurance enforcement rules. Having spoken to the DVLA last week as I insured my 944 so i could take it for an MOT (That I knew it would fail) I was informed I would have 14 days to tax the car and failure to tax would result in a fine. If i want to SORN the car again I will need to cancel the road insurance, which I would like to avoid doing as it will cost more money. I cant get the bits i need and the work done before the 14 days is up so will phone DVLA again tomorrow and see what they say and will post here.

Steve

[threep]

Hi Steve,

This is the official govt site on SORN:
https://www.gov.uk/sorn-statutory-off-road-notification

It says you can SORN a vehicle if you do not use or keep the vehicle on a public road. If it's not SORNd then you have to tax and insure it.

There's nothing I've seen written which says you can't insure it if it's SORNd. Tax and MOT are not a pre-requisite to get motor insurance, but of course if you drove a car without both (except to an arranged MOT) then you would most likely invalidate your insurance.

I might well be wrong, so if you find different (something written you can post a link to) then please share, but I thought the changes to the SORN rules were just to make sure that if not SORNd then you must have both tax and insurance.

[john]

I had missed at some point the fact that you don't have to renew a SORN annually.
No wonder I have not been getting the reminders lately...

[NoCorseChris]

One thing to be very wary of though - don't trust a conversation with a DVLA/VOSA representative to be definitive. Recently, whilst trying to register a recently IVAd Westfield, the owner was instructed to grind off the Westfield chassis number and await a new one to be issued. Thankfully, the owner questioned this repeatedly until it was finally acknowledged that a mistake had been made and that the factory applied chassis number was in fact OK (like that's a surprise).

We SORN our Westfield every year for around 6 months over the winter. During that time, it has always remained insured on the standard road-use policy.

I too would like to see something in writing on the official website - hopefully this is nothing more than a confused DVLA rep.

[The Slug]

Mine has been the same as you Chris insured all year despite being off the road. I can't see why you would want to cancel or be forced to cancel the insurance, it can sustain damage when parked up just as easily as when it's on the road, accidents and fire happen all the time.

I think the thing with SORN is you can't get it taxed if you don't have a valid MOT and insurance.

[Griff]

Essentially the vehicle must be:-

1. To be driven on a public road it must be Taxed, Insured (as specified in the Road Traffic Act) and have a valid MOT certificate, or untaxed & specifically being driven to an MOT testing station for a test appointment (there is no stipulation as to which MOT testing facility it is being taken, but it must be by the most direct route)
or
2.Sorn'd and kept off the public road

If a vehicle is Sorn'd, it may also be insured, there is no preclusion on keeping an insured vehicle that has been declared as "off road"

If the vehicle is on the road IT MUST be insured, If the vehicle is Sorn'd (off the road) IT May be insured.

To obtain Road Tax, it must be Insured (as specified in the Road Traffic Act) and have a valid MOT certificate

I hope that has clarified any ambiguity or uncertainty

[StruanR]

You can also drive untaxed to a pre-arranged IVA test...

'the only circumstances in which you can drive the vehicle before completing the registrationand licensing formalities are to and from a pre-arranged IVA and/or MoT test and to and from a garagefor remedial work following failure to pass the inspection. Other than in these situations, the vehiclemust not be used on the road until the licensing and registration formalities have been completed.'

[NoCorseChris]

Essentially the vehicle must be:-

1. To be driven on a public road it must be Taxed, Insured (as specified in the Road Traffic Act) and have a valid MOT certificate, or untaxed & specifically being driven to an MOT testing station for a test appointment (there is no stipulation as to which MOT testing facility it is being taken, but it must be by the most direct route)
or
2.Sorn'd and kept off the public road

If a vehicle is Sorn'd, it may also be insured, there is no preclusion on keeping an insured vehicle that has been declared as "off road"

If the vehicle is on the road IT MUST be insured, If the vehicle is Sorn'd (off the road) IT May be insured.

To obtain Road Tax, it must be Insured (as specified in the Road Traffic Act) and have a valid MOT certificate

I hope that has clarified any ambiguity or uncertainty

That's always been my understanding as well. Suspect (hope!) it's just a case of poor advice from DVLA and semantics.

[Griff]

Struan,
you are absolutely correct, Griff