View Full Version : Lister Bell STR for sale
catswhiskers
04-01-2016, 19:48
No surprises here then.:rolleyes:
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C695415
Mick
Lancialulu
04-01-2016, 21:06
Looks stunning. Somebody is going to have a very special 2016!
monoposto
04-01-2016, 22:27
Any plans for the next project?
catswhiskers
04-01-2016, 22:47
Any plans for the next project?
Already in the early stages but more research currently underway. More news in next few months.;)
Mick
NoCorseChris
05-01-2016, 12:00
Might I suggest Lego next time Mick? At least when you get bored, you can take it to bits and build something else.... :)
If you fancy a different challenge, try one of these that I'm building?? http://www.midlana.com
Whole different skillset required!
catswhiskers
05-01-2016, 15:53
:D:D Hi Chris,
Yes good suggestion. To be honest, the Lister Bell kit only happened for 2 reasons. 1. It gave me the opportunity to complete a third different Stratos having previously built a Corse and a Hawk. And 2. It came at a time when I needed a project to keep me occupied and sane after the loss of Christine. I thoroughly enjoyed the whole build and it served it's purpose very well.
Now what I have planned is not on the scale of a Stratos build. I reckon 3 of those is enough at my age.:rolleyes:
As you may have seen recently, I have now re-aquired my old X1/9 and having just finished a complete interior retrim in ivory leather, new carpets etc. I'm planning to go to work on the engine and transmission in an attempt to make the car what it should have been all along, a pocket rocket. Research is well underway and I have a feeling that bike carbs may well be involved. We'll see over the coming months.
Oh and good luck with your build. I've been watching with interest.
ProtoTipo
05-01-2016, 17:25
I'm planning to go to work on the engine and transmission in an attempt to make the car what it should have been all along, a pocket rocket.
Type R Mick?
Mick
I note your comments regarding bike carbs I am currently running a set of Yamaha R1 carbs on my 2.0 twin cam, nice and compact and do not go out of tune. I got a suitable inlet manifold made up by a local outfit called Bogg Brothers at eithe East or West Lutton near Malton. they specialise in bike carb inlet manifolds for cars.
David
strat24v
05-01-2016, 17:58
uno turbo engine was the easiest, pretty much a straight swap
catswhiskers
05-01-2016, 19:40
uno turbo engine was the easiest, pretty much a straight swap
As you say John 'was' the easiest but several reasons for not going that way now. Under bonnet heat and oil feed issues but mainly the supply of these engines has pretty much dried up now. They don't sound as good as carbs either and as David says, once they are set up, they don't go out of tune.
David, I've also been talking to Bogg brothers regarding manifolds. Apparently, they have made several for the X1/9 so have the dimensions 'on the shelf'.
We'll see.
Mick
ProtoTipo
06-01-2016, 10:18
Type R Mick?
See here:
http://www.midwest-bayless.com/p-1029-k20-kit-stage1-acura-honda-k20-engine-swap-kit-for-fiat-bertone-x19-stage-1.aspx
See here:
http://www.midwest-bayless.com/p-1029-k20-kit-stage1-acura-honda-k20-engine-swap-kit-for-fiat-bertone-x19-stage-1.aspx
Very nice.
NoCorseChris
06-01-2016, 11:02
Always liked the X 1/9, and just like the Monte Carlo, it always cried out for way more power. That K20 conversion kit looks like a good option. Bit pricey, but as the advert says, it'll save a lot of time and grief.
The chap that designed the thing I'm building has a turbo K20 in his car. Over 400bhp if you are in the market for a totally mad X 1/9.....
catswhiskers
06-01-2016, 20:14
See here:
http://www.midwest-bayless.com/p-1029-k20-kit-stage1-acura-honda-k20-engine-swap-kit-for-fiat-bertone-x19-stage-1.aspx
Yes Chris very nice but there's a catch,
Please Note!: Additional modifications are required to the chassis of the car in order to install the K20 engine and driveline. This kit alone will not do it all! Cutting of the frame rails in specific locations and gusseting of those sections is required. Modification to the fuel lines, fuel pump location, engine bay cooling lines, clutch hydraulics, and throttle body are required.
Don't want to go down that route because before you know it, you just have a quick sports car with an X1/9 body on it. Apart from that, it just feels wrong to go Japanese in a Fiat. I'll stick with the stock block and work from that.
Mick
Quite right Mick. Agree with that sentiment.
If you were doing a full rebuild and able to do chassis mods at an early stage then the engine swop might make more economic sense. But as you've got all that messy graft behind you then engine development on the FIAT lump makes sense.
Don't know if there is any info on Guy Moerenhouts website to help you?
strat24v
06-01-2016, 20:54
Nice set of bike itb's and engine management would be good, all the noise of the carbs, accurate fueling and spark. I read an article many years ago on an x1/9 race engine build, was most interesting. Think the finished item was a bit of a screamer.
Seems quite cheap to me - or am I missing something?
Cheers,
Hedge
catswhiskers
07-01-2016, 10:17
Seems quite cheap to me - or am I missing something?
No your not missing anything. Absolute bargain.
Please form an orderly queue.:rolleyes:
Mick
ProtoTipo
07-01-2016, 10:25
Seems quite cheap to me - or am I missing something?
Cheers,
Hedge
This was £39k:
http://www.listerbell.com/for-sale
catswhiskers
09-01-2016, 15:45
Pleased to report that deposit has been taken.:o
Mick
ProtoTipo
09-01-2016, 16:50
Pleased to report that deposit has been taken.:o
Mick
A no brainer, I would have thought.
Says a lot about Lister Bells?
strat24v
09-01-2016, 18:12
You can spend years trimming, shaping, glassing, filling, modifying and improving other makes and finish up with what comes as standard from Listerbell so yeah, these days its a no brainer.
Good news Mick.
Is it that folks want ready built, ready registered?
Pay your money and drive away?
Better get on with mine!
monoposto
09-01-2016, 21:10
Holy smokes! That sold fast!
That did sell quick, shame Mick as I don't think I saw the finished article. Is it staying in the UK or going overseas?
catswhiskers
10-01-2016, 14:48
The car will be going to Belgium. It has been bought to add to a father and sons private collection of historic 'rally' cars. The buyer rang on Friday to confirm travel details, flew over on Saturday morning arrived after lunch and bought the car on the spot.
Transport is now being arranged for the coming week. I had enquiries from Italy, Switzerland, Czech republic, Belgium as well as UK. It makes you wonder about the phrase 'first to see will buy'. :o You never can tell.
Mick
strat24v
10-01-2016, 16:38
Father and Son collectors?? Not Ernst and Christian??!
Guy Mayers
10-01-2016, 16:44
Father and Son collectors?? Not Ernst and Christian??!
Doubt they'll ever speak again......
Guy Moerenhout?
strat24v
10-01-2016, 16:47
Doubt they'll ever speak again..
See my exclamation mark!!
catswhiskers
10-01-2016, 18:00
Guy Moerenhout?
No. All I can say is the son is Jeff.
Mick
davehanman
12-01-2016, 14:28
I wonder why all the replicas coming up for sale are LB's. Isn't anybody selling a Hawk these days.
david
I've seen v few LB's up for sale that have actually been made by LB themselves, is that right? I'm still a relative newbie so excuse me if I'm talking poop.
Cheers,
Hedge
strat24v
12-01-2016, 15:56
Not sure on the whole history. One customer car (alitalia) sold then he's ordered a new Toyota version. Micks car recently, think Mick is aiming for guiness world record of number of classics owned and restored. Green car I believe was a customer car but don't know more about it.
There are still Hawk owners beavering away but not many, probably all fed up.
catswhiskers
12-01-2016, 16:11
think Mick is aiming for guiness world record of number of classics owned and restored.
John I think you are exaggerating. Since I had the Corse in 2005, I've only had / restored 14 others. I don't know what all the fuss is about.:rolleyes:
Mick
strat24v
12-01-2016, 17:39
John I think you are exaggerating. Since I had the Corse in 2005, I've only had / restored 14 others. I don't know what all the fuss is about.:rolleyes:
Mick
I think cars have become a little too easy for you, time to test your skills and grey matter a little more and build yourself a small aircraft.
The Slug
13-01-2016, 01:05
I wonder why all the replicas coming up for sale are LB's. Isn't anybody selling a Hawk these days.
david
Well from my point of view I have sold what was a great kit and will be ordering the new kit which has been developed further and is even better in key areas whilst keeping the best bits.
It's called development and improvement of your product.
Clearly a healthy market for customer built ListerBells, speaks volumes really, and at last people are paying a more representative price for a LB stratos. Hopefully this will also help the Hawk prices should one come up for sale.
Win win for all really.
davehanman
13-01-2016, 03:03
Well from my point of view I have sold what was a great kit and will be ordering the new kit which has been developed further and is even better in key areas whilst keeping the best bits.
It's called development and improvement of your product.
Clearly a healthy market for customer built ListerBells, speaks volumes really, and at last people are paying a more representative price for a LB stratos. Hopefully this will also help the Hawk prices should one come up for sale.
Win win for all really.
Good to hear that you will be doing another one :-). Guessing you will do another works car ?
How long does it take to complete a LB ? I heard it all just bolts together from the factory.
How long does it take to complete a LB ? I heard it all just bolts together from the factory.
I don't think anyone would quite claim that, but I think it's closer to that than has been on offer from any other option available until the LB came along.
Hats off to Craig for continuing to work towards that goal, and further, since the projects inception.
As Ian says continuous development is the key to any successful product (mirroring the main stream auto industry) and is no mean feat for a small outfit to maintain.
It does indeed speak volumes for the product that finished examples are snapped up at good prices by buyers who recognise a well engineered car.
catswhiskers
13-01-2016, 11:26
How long does it take to complete a LB ?
Dave, I logged 270 hours on mine if that's any guide.
Mick
Dave, I logged 270 hours on mine if that's any guide.
Mick
Shave off Mick that's 270/40 = 6.75 weeks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ................................... I dare not say how many hours have been spent on Eric.................... Mind you that's less than my son's efforts !.. LOL
strat24v
13-01-2016, 13:13
Thanks for the reminder Dad. I'd hazard a guess at 4000 but probably 3000 of those supping tea and scratching me head!
Thanks for the reminder Dad. I'd hazard a guess at 4000 but probably 3000 of those supping tea and scratching me head!
LOL.......... same here !
probably 3000 of those supping tea and scratching me head!
Works for the Project Binky boys!
catswhiskers
13-01-2016, 17:59
Shave off Mick that's 270/40 = 6.75 weeks.
I honestly believe that if all the parts (and I mean ALL) were in the garage from day 1 then it would be possible to build the car in 4 weeks. Mind you, you'd need a big garage/storage area.
Mick
The Slug
13-01-2016, 23:21
Good to hear that you will be doing another one :-). Guessing you will do another works car ?
How long does it take to complete a LB ? I heard it all just bolts together from the factory.
You should buy one David and try building it yourself you would have one of each then, not many could claim that!
monoposto
15-01-2016, 00:46
Well Mick, you plan on sticking around right?
catswhiskers
15-01-2016, 10:47
Well Mick, you plan on sticking around right?
Yes I'll still be here watching other people's builds with interest. The Stratos has just been collected this morning and is now heading for the ferry. I suddenly have much more room in the garage.:o
Mick
ironman523
16-01-2016, 04:29
Good to hear that you will be doing another one :-). Guessing you will do another works car ?
How long does it take to complete a LB ? I heard it all just bolts together from the factory.
I am in the midst of building a Listerbell and would say that there is a general misconception that the car just bolts together with bugger all thought in a few weeks. The Listerbell is a huge commitment in money and time and effort and everything else that am sure Hawk builders are familiar with in exactly the same way. Yes it's better engineered and developed etc but that doesn't make it easy, it is still a challenging thing to attempt and no one should be under any illusion if they decide to undertake it. Yes if you had some know how and all the bits you could probably throw something together that resembles a car in 6 weeks but it would have no attention to detail and no quality of build and what's the good in that. So no it doesn't all just bolt together, there's a bit more to it than that.
ProtoTipo
16-01-2016, 09:30
The Listerbell is a huge commitment in money and time and effort and everything else that am sure Hawk builders are familiar with in exactly the same way.
A good yardstick here is comparing Mick's Hawk build to his LB STR.
Looking back on this forum, I'm surprised at how similar the time span was.
I know Mick's STR was on the road and registered, so time for that needs to be taken into account, but the Hawk was a pre owned kit and would have needed a bit more head scratching. The time for the former on the LB might cancel out the latter, on the Hawk?
Stratos Fear
16-01-2016, 13:20
In terms of ease of construction of the LB kit I would echo Ironman's comments. I am a novice builder (last kit was a beach buggy in 1970 !) and I am finding it a challenge. Craig has not got a build manual and appears to be too busy to write one (although I did offer to write one as I go). Craig believes that photos should enable any builder to resolve any queries - and although they help enormously (via a Dropbox account) there are still many detailed questions that I as a novice builder have. Having said this I am making progress - although perhaps not as fast as I would like. But then we never go as fast as we would like with this sort of build do we? - life tends to get in the way!
Peter C
ProtoTipo
12-07-2018, 16:42
Is this where Mick's car still is?:
http://qclassiccars.be/EN/stock/detail.aspx#!240
Strat Fan
12-07-2018, 20:38
I think so,
The RHD and UK registration may hinder its market potential if they are actually trying to sell it on.
Belgium, like many other places in Europe is a difficult place to register UK kit cars.
I think so,
The RHD and UK registration may hinder its market potential if they are actually trying to sell it on.
Belgium, like many other places in Europe is a difficult place to register UK kit cars.
Well if the car is properly registered in the UK no problem, i mean a new VIN and make / model not an existing VIN and Lancia Beta or something. Not speaking for Belgium but in Holland the biggest issue is the tax to be paid. For a car like this i think around 15.000 Euro's or more. ( if its a gasoline car, when registered as a diesel it is far less tax, crazy stuff :confused: )
I am still hoping to get my 037 through IVA ( instead of Dutch registration ) in the UK just because it is a bit easier on your side of the pond.
So me i am hoping Brexit is still not final yet. But i am sure some of you wil disagree.... ; ) :cool:
And of course love to visit the UK again. Always like it there and realy love youre kind of humor.
Strat Fan
13-07-2018, 21:37
Well if the car is properly registered in the UK no problem, i mean a new VIN and make / model not an existing VIN and Lancia Beta or something. Not speaking for Belgium but in Holland the biggest issue is the tax to be paid. For a car like this i think around 15.000 Euro's or more.
The car is correctly registered in the UK as a Lister Bell STR with a date of first registration of April 2015.
I do not know what the requirement in Belgium is but I assume that a car with that year of first registration should meet Euro 6 emissions which the Alfa 2.5 24v does not.
As you also say new registrations and larger engines also command higher taxes.
The car is correctly registered in the UK as a Lister Bell STR with a date of first registration of April 2015.
I do not know what the requirement in Belgium is but I assume that a car with that year of first registration should meet Euro 6 emissions which the Alfa 2.5 24v does not.
As you also say new registrations and larger engines also command higher taxes.
Yes taht is right in Holland tax is calculated from hordepower and weight, so the smaller end lighter the better. Emmissions have to comply with the existing regulations from the year of registration.
Strat Fan
14-07-2018, 08:00
Yes that is right in Holland tax is calculated from hordepower and weight, so the smaller end lighter the better. Emmissions have to comply with the existing regulations from the year of registration.
This is the problem with the UK system these days and why it is prohibitive to export a car into Europe. 5 years ago if you IVA'd a car in the UK using the age related system you could get a date of first registration relative to the age of the donor which was great.
If you used for example a 1988 Alfa 164 as a donor then you could get a 1988 date of first registration which made tax and imports easier for Germany, Italy, Holland etc. Once the DVLA satellite offices were closed and everything was moved top Swansea then this changed and all cars IVA'd on a new chassis now get a date of first registration as per the year of the IVA test. This is where it gets confusing for European exports because in the UK you can now have a car that has a 1988 registration plate, a car which meets 1988 emissions standards (this is detailed on the front cover of the V5 doc) but has date of first registration of 2018! The only bit which is relevant when exported is the year of 2018 and the emissions standard and registration plate are not acknowledged. A 1988 engine clearly doesn't meet EU6 emissions regulations for 2018.
ah_sprite
14-07-2018, 10:49
I asked him a few months ago how much he was looking for for the car - 78,000 euros!
Perhaps a mixture of it being a bit pricey and also not really having it obviously advertised anywhere apart from his own website probably doesn't help much either!
This is the problem with the UK system these days and why it is prohibitive to export a car into Europe..
What do you mean by "prohibitive" . Would my plan still work, getting a "clean" engine in the 037, get it through IVA and than import it back into Holland?
If not thann i will be stuck with Dutch "IVA" which is more difficult and twice as expensive. :(
Strat Fan
16-07-2018, 08:33
What do you mean by "prohibitive" . Would my plan still work, getting a "clean" engine in the 037, get it through IVA and than import it back into Holland?
If not thann i will be stuck with Dutch "IVA" which is more difficult and twice as expensive. :(
Yes you can IVA it in the UK but you need to be clear about who the manufacturer is, how you prove that the chassis and other components are new and what components you would be using to give you an age related plate (or are you looking for a new registration?) You will also need a UK address to apply for an IVA and registration.
In either case the date of first registration will be from the year of the IVA test so how the Dutch authorities would then interpret this with regards to taxation and emissions remains open to question.
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