Electric power steering

[The Slug]

For those of you looking to fit Electric power steering, I have been sent this info that you might find intresting.

Have a look here (http://www.dcelectronics.co.uk/Products/EPAS)

[Stratos Fear]

Looks interesting and doesn't seem too difficult to install - but < 40 amp current draw when parking ! I think if I let my wife park the car , the battery would be flat before she'd got the car into the slot ! (sexist remark - apologies to the ladies - but my wife is pretty bad at parking)

[Lancialulu]

What is the relevance to driving a strato's - isn't the steering nicely weighted and very light (at least compared to my other non-power steered Lancias)?

[The Slug]

Some folk have fitted power steering. Clearly not your thing but we are all different, just like the cars.

[Guy Mayers]

If you've got a smaller steering wheel and wide tyres (I run 225*50*15) then the steering can be heavy at parking speeds Tim. my steering wheel is a standard Stradale one so it's not an issue for me, plenty of leverage!

Guy

[Strat Fan]

What is the relevance to driving a strato's - isn't the steering nicely weighted and very light (at least compared to my other non-power steered Lancias)?

From my experience I find that the more castor the car has dialed in then the better it handles/behaves. The trade off for this is the weight of the steering at slower speeds. With the wider tyres as Guy mentions then this only gets worse. The new Pirelli Corsa classic tyres are a 235 effective width and in the softer stickier compounds these could be too much for some. EPS is an option I would consider exploring especially on a track day oriented machine, provided of course that it doesn't take away the feel from the steering!
The company in question were at the Autosport show on Thurs/Friday last week and were both friendly and helpful.

[Guy Mayers]

From my experience I find that the more castor the car has dialed in then the better it handles/behaves. The trade off for this is the weight of the steering at slower speeds. With the wider tyres as Guy mentions then this only gets worse. The new Pirelli Corsa classic tyres are a 235 effective width and in the softer stickier compounds these could be too much for some. EPS is an option I would consider exploring especially on a track day oriented machine, provided of course that it doesn't take away the feel from the steering!
The company in question were at the Autosport show on Thurs/Friday last week and were both friendly and helpful.

Wise words Craig! The 225s are a very tight fit, I've not contemplate the Corsa classic tyre yet. A few more miles left on the current set! And yes, I run as much castor as I can wind on the get plenty of self centering.
Guy

[john]

Steve Ellis spent time effort and money fitting some assistance to his Corse but mostly in the interests of still driving the car after a lifetimes abuse of his shoulders in trial riding!
Some folks need it even if the idea isn't entirely in the spirit.

[Bernard]

Having recently had a shoulder partly out of socket and a trapped nerve...... it ain't pleasant !..... so I can see the benefits of EPS...... however tyre selection is also critical !

Nico Alonzi runs 245 fronts on his green car.... I tried it last year and it was HEAVY in slow manoeuvres !... this of course is not so profound when on the move..........can't remember the tyre make and model tho'

I stand to be corrected but I suspect 205 is about right sizing with a soft compound Pirelli / Michelin (or similar) tyre is optimum for our cars... IMHO............. however we all have different requirements

Just my ten peneth !

Phil

[Normb666]

Well I'm not as well-off as Phil, so this is my three-ha'porth :)

Might it be possible to connect this up via a switch, so it only operates when you want it to, i.e. at parking speeds? FIAT have a system on their cars that utilizes a "CITY" button, that makes the steering one-finger light - similar idea, but a full "on/off" for our cars rather than an "assisted/don't breathe on the wheel or else" thing?

[Bernard]

Well I'm not as well-off as Phil, so this is my three-ha'porth :)

Might it be possible to connect this up via a switch, so it only operates when you want it to, i.e. at parking speeds? FIAT have a system on their cars that utilizes a "CITY" button, that makes the steering one-finger light - similar idea, but a full "on/off" for our cars rather than an "assisted/don't breathe on the wheel or else" thing?

You don't hear this often............................ good idea Norm !!

[strat24v]

The columns don't work like that. If one was fitted and the assistance went off, you wouldn't turn the wheel.
Most used option is a Vauxhall column with an aftermarket little box that is switchable to increase or decrease assistance. Punto unit is too big, Seicento has exactly the same diameter column tube as your typical x19 so your stalks etc fit straight on.

[ProtoTipo]

The columns don't work like that. If one was fitted and the assistance went off, you wouldn't turn the wheel.


I had a late Vauxhall Corsa B with electronic power steering. The car developed a throttle mechanism problem while it was still under warranty.
The engine went onto a limp mode on high revs. I switched the car off just before steering into a fuel station forecourt and suddenly I could hardly steer because of the big difference between with assistance and having none. I had another Corsa B with no power steering, but the rack on that one was much lower geared.

[STR_Strat]

I have fitted my LB with EPS. It uses a Corsa B column including the ECU and ignition barrel. The Corsa B is getting more scarce now but is a better fit than the now more common Corsa C due the overall length being near as dammit the same as the Fiat X1/9 column. LB now have a bracket designed for this to be a straightforward fit to the chassis so it bolts straight in.
There are a few challenges if you want to use the X1/9 stalks, which I did. The outer column housing needs to be cut back in length and a new top bearing made, you also need to modify the self cancelling indicator trigger. All doable but it takes time and a lathe and some fettling to do.
As for the control, I have fitted a black box that has an input from a speed sensor and then sends a signal to the Corsa EPS ECU. This has different assistance settings which are programable to switch at different road speeds.
Obviously I haven't tried it at speed but for manoeuvring on the drive (rough tarmac) it is an absolute dream. In the event of a power failure then the only difference is a small amount of additional drag as you are also spinning the motor by hand.
Once I get the car on the road I can do a full report on how it works, as Craig has already said I should be able to increase the castor angle to improve straight line stability.

If anyone is contemplating fitting EPS then feel free to get in touch.

Dave

[Normb666]

Cheers Dave, that's very informative...I had a proper read of the info from the manufacturer mentioned at the start of this thread, which I should've done before asking that question about on/off switches. Similar to what you've got, the motor is permanently powered, even at minimum assistance. I like the idea but I think for me, at the mo, it'll be enough to be worrying about just building the thing and getting it on the road! (no, haven't got a chassis yet, but soon...it says here.) Assume your setup, with the special LB bracket, is retro-fittable? - so could be an upgrade once my arm muscles have degenerated even further? :)

[ChrisCar6]

The bumph tagged in the first post shows an "EPAS ECU" with a "speed or map" input - sounds like it could be mapped to give varying assistance at different speeds.

[strat24v]

They do that already, it's just that one can be custom configured. Have you seen a price for it?

[FastByFelix]

I custom fitted a Saturn Vue EPS to my LS1 V8 Miata. Driver selectable assist. It is a clean install on the column but you do loose some feed back from the car.

[ducatiman]

Here is a comparison of lengths between the X 1/9 shaft, Corsa B and Corsa C EPS shafts.

Approximate lengths:
X 1/9 - 405mm
Corsa B - 420mm
Corsa C - 580mm

13608


13607



Both the Corsa B & C shafts are collapsible and you can also see that the front mounting of each shaft has special inserts that will break and allow the shaft to shorten if required in an accident.

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[Stradale493]

Following this thread with interest. I've picked up a Corsa B EPS column "just in case" I decide to go down that route at some point in the future - certainly prices were steadily rising and reasonably priced items seem to get snapped up pretty quick. No hurry for my though as I don't currently mind the weight of the "shoulder powered" steering

[Steve65]

Hi Dave,
I'm very interested in your EPAS thread as it clearly opens up suspension and steering geometry options to improve stability. My concern/question however is how does this affect the steering feed back as my only long term experience of EPAS is several years ago with a Honda S2000 which was incredibly vague and had little to no feel of the limit, especially in the wet. I did a lot of research last night and this is a common criticism unless you go to the very latest generation of technology (apparently a Porsche system is one of the leaders) which is clearly not an option for the majority of us. Most engineering solutions have some inbuilt compromise, which I'd be prepared to accept as long as it doesn't replace one issue with another. I have a long wait for my chassis so want to use the time to review and plan the various build options and collect and prepare all the parts. I know steering 'feel' will be subjective but am interested to understand your experience/thoughts.

regards
Steve

[ChrisCar6]

I think it depends on what you're doing with the car. I have no PAS and a quick rack - 2.5 turns lock to lock - on a Hawk with usually 205 front tyres on 6" rims. Really not great for parking/3-point turns etc., but once off and moving no problem at all; great feel at speed. If I lived in town and used it around town a lot I would be thinking of it. Castor/camber settings have an effect too.

[Guy Mayers]

I think it depends on what you're doing with the car. I have no PAS and a quick rack - 2.5 turns lock to lock - on a Hawk with usually 205 front tyres on 6" rims. Really not great for parking/3-point turns etc., but once off and moving no problem at all; great feel at speed. If I lived in town and used it around town a lot I would be thinking of it. Castor/camber settings have an effect too.

Plus one Chris! And I run 8 inch on the front with 225*50*15's! You soon learn not to attempt to turn the steering wheel until the wheels are rotating! And yes, it improves with speed and has great feedback.

Guy

[STR_Strat]

I can't comment on the feel or feedback yet as the car has only been driven a few yards in and out of the garage. The plan is to do a bit of experimenting once it is on the road/track with the suspension set up. The entrance to my garage and the fact other cars are on the drive means I inevitably end up having to faff around on what is a very grippy surface to get the car in and out. If it doesn't work out and I lose too much feel it will be much easier to remove the setup, than it would have been to add it after the build.
As soon as I can test it properly on the road or on the track I will report back, all I can say at present is its a dream to use at 1mph:o

[Normb666]

Hmmm, prob best to set off for the 2019 AGM at Stoneleigh sometime in February then Dave :) :)

[STR_Strat]

That took me a while, I need more coffee:confused:

[4sfed5]

There are LOADS of threads about corsa retrofits mostly on ford escorts and vw golf's. There are a few good controllers available to vary the assistance (they basically just send a false speed signal to the epas controller) some are better than others.... or you could fit a speed sensor to your car.
Fiat punto have epas too so maybe look at those too

[ducatiman]

For those interested in the install and electronics required, found this site with loads of great info................

http://www.super7thheaven.co.uk/blog/corsa-c-electric-power-steering-epas/

You can navigate around the various pages, well worth a read. It warns of the dangers of using some of the cheap units that are available to give false speed signals into the Corsa Control unit and some have drifted badly with temperature.

[Stratos Fear]

Interesting site - he sounds knowledgeable.

[ducatiman]

Corsa C EPAS - Modified a lot to fit MK1 Rally Escort..............all the original collapsible shaft to the steering wheel has been removed and escort steering column grafted on.

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