Hawk Rear Brakes

[Bernard]

Nellie's rear brake calipers are past their sell by date... They are off a Lancia Beta

What are the options of a standard fitting caliper... ie Alfa Romeo, Fiat etc

Cheers
Phil

[Paul Eustace]

Hi Phil,
If it helps I have an almost new or slightly used set of Lancia Beta handbrake cables you are welcome to. Just pm me and I'll post them to you.

I used my Lancia Beta Calipers to get through the IVA test and then upgraded my rear brakes to electronic hand brake calipers and HiSpec Ultralite 4 pot calipers.

Best regards, Paul

[Guy Mayers]

I'm using 156 for the next build Phil. But it's 5 stud. And a different carrier. And I haven't started the handbrake cabe search yet..

[ProtoTipo]

Nellie's rear brake calipers are past their sell by date... They are off a Lancia Beta

What are the options of a standard fitting caliper... ie Alfa Romeo, Fiat etc

Cheers
Phil

1500 X1/9 and Montes have larger handbrake calipers than a FWD Beta.
If you went for the above, you would need to fit X1/9 twin cables (or whatever an LB uses) and the 90° pulley system somehow. The single Monte cable isn't quite long enough.


I'm using 156 for the next build Phil. But it's 5 stud. And a different carrier. And I haven't started the handbrake cabe search yet..

Guy, have you got rear discs?, I've got a nearly new pair of 156 5x98mm rears doing nothing. I took them off the orange car when I went 5x108mm.

[Bernard]

Hi Paul

What were the electronic one's off ?
Are they actuated by a simple on/off switch ?
Cheers
Phil



Hi Phil,
If it helps I have an almost new or slightly used set of Lancia Beta handbrake cables you are welcome to. Just pm me and I'll post them to you.

I used my Lancia Beta Calipers to get through the IVA test and then upgraded my rear brakes to electronic hand brake calipers and HiSpec Ultralite 4 pot calipers.

Best regards, Paul

[Bernard]

Thanks for all your suggestions so far !

[Guy Mayers]

Guy, have you got rear discs?, I've got a nearly new pair of 156 5x98mm rears doing nothing. I took them off the orange car when I went 5x108mm.

Thanks Chris but yes, brake discs all sorted thanks!

[StruanR]

I have a pair of 156 rear calipers, if anyone needs.

[Bernard]

I have a pair of 156 rear calipers, if anyone needs.

Hi Struan
Do you have a photo ?
Cheers
Phil

[Bernard]

Looking at the whole system now !

Nellie has always had a "long" pedal.... she stops ok but the pedal is almost to the floor !

Photo's are of current set up.
Front Calipers are Lockheed AP 4 pot's of a Princess I believe
Rears are Beta
1407814079

It looks like the brake servo bracket can also be used for a twin master cylinder set up.
I like the idea of using standard parts from main stream cars...

So any advice welcome... cheers Phil

[Paul Eustace]

My electronic handbrake calipers are supplied by HiSpec. You simply have a button switch to locate either on the dashboard or I installed mine near the gear lever.

I also have a hydraulic handbrake.

[ChrisCar6]

You can generate much more rear braking than the standard brakes off a front engined car, but it gets complicated. Twin M/C setup makes it easier.

[ProtoTipo]

A car from the period with a heavy mid V6 engine was the AC 3000ME.
What rear calipers were used on those?

[Strat Fan]

A car from the period with a heavy mid V6 engine was the AC 3000ME.
What rear calipers were used on those?

The AC 3000 has a 250 x 12mm rear disc mated to 3 piston caliper (yes 3 piston!) which also has a piggy back handbrake assembly which hangs below the main caliper.
1408414083

[gp4124]

Those calipers are Fiat 2300 common upgrade for Healeys in OZ

Regards
Chris

[gp4124]

My electronic handbrake calipers are supplied by HiSpec. You simply have a button switch to locate either on the dashboard or I installed mine near the gear lever.

I also have a hydraulic handbrake.

I’ve ordered Hi Spec electronic for my Stratos, very curious to hear how well they work

Thanks
Chris

[ProtoTipo]

The AC 3000 has a 250 x 12mm rear disc mated to 3 piston caliper (yes 3 piston!) which also has a piggy back handbrake assembly which hangs below the main caliper.

Thanks Craig,
I bet those Girling rear calipers are either hard to find, or expensive, or both?

[colin artus]

Common fitment is the old xj6/12/xjs. I think the Girling designation is 12/3.

[Bernard]

Craig............... is there anything you don't know ????.......... I mean... AC 3000ME Rear Brakes...... You need more holidays

Luv Ya !

[strat24v]

166 Brembo four pots fit front and rear with hawk coffin spokes. Just brackets to make.
Stock pedal ratio is around 4 to 1 so you'd still need servo assistance if you went to twin cylinders and balance bar. Trying to alter the ratio with the stock pedal or linkages to get rid of the servo is a no go, you'll just run out of pedal travel.

[Normb666]

Craig............... is there anything you don't know ????.......... I mean... AC 3000ME Rear Brakes...... You need more holidays

Luv Ya !

...and not only that, he had pictures....

[Strat Fan]

Craig............... is there anything you don't know ????.......... I mean... AC 3000ME Rear Brakes...... You need more holidays


I just happen to know someone (in the Langley Mill direction) who has an AC 3000 ME in their workshop currently whilst it is undergoing an engine swap from the original motor to the V6 from a 164.

[ProtoTipo]

I just happen to know someone (in the Langley Mill direction) who has an AC 3000 ME in their workshop currently whilst it is undergoing an engine swap from the original motor to the V6 from a 164.

One of the factory made cars actually had Alfa running gear:
https://online.handh.co.uk/m/lot-details/index/catalog/26/lot/3635/

[Strat Fan]

One of the factory made cars actually had Alfa running gear:
https://online.handh.co.uk/m/lot-details/index/catalog/26/lot/3635/

This history of this is what prompted the customer to head down the Alfa route. It is a tight fit however! I believe the original engine sat atop its gearbox a bit like a Mini and a Dino/308 so there was a decent amount of room in the engine bay. Trying to shoehorn an Alfa in there is a bit more interesting!!

[john]

If you opt for a pedal box Phil, I have a mould to make a panel which will fit the Hawk and cover and close off the hole you will have to cut to accommodate the box. It will cover either left hand drive or right hand drive pedal boxes.
Making bracketry to hold a pedal box is pretty straightforward but covering it all up and making it look like it was always like that is more time consuming.
Still, it's maybe more work than you want to do although as John says you can get rid of the servo if you go that route.

[Paul Eustace]

I am really pleased with the HiSpec Electronic Handbrake Calipers. I have used the spot caliper together with a separate 4 pot HiSpec Ultralite caliper. I have opted for a hydraulic handbrake in addition to the electronic caliper as the electronic button is really only for parking.
I decided upon the spot caliper as I felt the single piston electronic option is really for front engined VW Golfs or similar cars. I have fitted a 13/16" rear master cylinder with a 5/8" front master cylinder and my brake balance bar is now around the central 50/50 position and fronts lock up just before the rears. Previously I had too much rear brake bias, not a good situation.
I have posted some photographs in a separate thread if you are interested.
The only problem I have is that I cannot get the handbrake warning light to work, the led on the button works but the output wire from the controller does not do anything.....

[ProtoTipo]

This history of this is what prompted the customer to head down the Alfa route. It is a tight fit however! I believe the original engine sat atop its gearbox a bit like a Mini and a Dino/308 so there was a decent amount of room in the engine bay. Trying to shoehorn an Alfa in there is a bit more interesting!!

Yes, I'd read that the very first one had a BMC gearbox, then AC made their own. Access to the factory Alfa engined car would be useful with this project?

Phil,
I know this might sound daft, but I wondered about fitting a fabricated alloy (or steel) footwell that was about 1" or 1.5" lower than the Hawk (flat) one?
Then you could lengthen the pedal accordingly?
I'm sure the footwells on the original car are lower, within the chassis?
That, or re-engineer the car to fit a new pedal box. Worthwhile, but such an upheaval to do this kind of thing on a car that's already built?

[ChrisCar6]

Newer Hawk rear hub-carriers have 2 sets of caliper mounting lugs, leading and trailing, so make it easier to fabricate a seperate handbrake caliper mounting.

[ChrisCar6]

Phil,
I know this might sound daft, but I wondered about fitting a fabricated alloy (or steel) footwell that was about 1" or 1.5" lower than the Hawk (flat) one?
Then you could lengthen the pedal accordingly?
I'm sure the footwells on the original car are lower, within the chassis?
That, or re-engineer the car to fit a new pedal box. Worthwhile, but such an upheaval to do this kind of thing on a car that's already built?
Using a dual servo sounds much simpler!

[Bernard]

Thanks for all your suggestions chaps... I will post after the carve up !
Cheers
Phil

[Bernard]

Hi Paul
Did you see your PM..??
cheers
Phil


Hi Phil,
If it helps I have an almost new or slightly used set of Lancia Beta handbrake cables you are welcome to. Just pm me and I'll post them to you.

I used my Lancia Beta Calipers to get through the IVA test and then upgraded my rear brakes to electronic hand brake calipers and HiSpec Ultralite 4 pot calipers.

Best regards, Paul

[Bernard]

Well... I had a great idea !

Someone let me borrow the Rear Disc (Ø276mm x 10mm thick), Caliper, Caliper Mounting bracket from a 2005 Alfa 3.2 GT.

Guess what.... it bolts directly onto the Hawk Rear Hub, the disc runs perfectly central, the clearance between the wheel and the Caliper is about 10mm, the caliper hand brake bracket is well inside the rim and is slightly closer to the handbrake so it all looks good !

I have now purchased 2 new Discs cross drilled and grooved, 2 new calipers, new mounting pin kit, set of pads, anti pad rattle clips !, all for about £170... bargain

If Craig at LB say's it was his suggestion I will stop buying the biscuits !...LOL.............................................ok.............................................................. Thanks Craig it was a good, cost effective idea...

[ProtoTipo]

I have now purchased 2 new Discs cross drilled and grooved,

Are GTs 5x98mm Phil?

[Bernard]

Are GTs 5x98mm Phil?

Hi Chris... yes 5x98 !
Everything just Bolts together !

[Bernard]

Hi all
Well all of the new parts have arrived !
The only item that was more difficult to source was the caliper Carrier (Lucas 7795/1)... fortunately Craig had a set of a "Breaker"... thanks Craig

The Carriers have be thoroughly cleaned and are painted red and hanging above the Aga to dry !

Will post some photo's when it's all together

Cheers

Phil

[Guy Mayers]

Hi all

The only item that was more difficult to source was the caliper Carrier (Lucas 7795/1)... fortunately Craig had a set of a "Breaker"... thanks Craig



I think I got a set from Germany, 164 for the front, 156 for the back. But yes, the carriers were the hardest parts of the brakes to source!

Guy

[Bazag]

I'm breaking a 3.2 gt if anyone wants to come and take the brakes off it. Based in Wrexham. PM if me if your interested. Barry

[ChrisCar6]

I have a pair of BNIB 159 / Brera / Spider rear discs for sale if anybody can use them. APEC DSK2431

[Guy Mayers]

I have a pair of BNIB 159 / Brera / Spider rear discs for sale if anybody can use them. APEC DSK2431

Odd size - 110mm PCD Chris?

Guy

[ChrisCar6]

5 x 98.

http://www.brakeworld.co.uk/brakeworld/buyguide/html/rs3946.htm

[Guy Mayers]

Sorry Chris - Alfa 159 is 110mm.

https://wheelpcd.co.uk/fitment-guide/alfa-romeo/159/2010/

I've got a 159 Ti 2.4 Q4 and the wheels won't fit the Stratos replica. My car has standard Brembo brakes on it, replace discs and pads earlier this year.

Are you confusing it with the 156? That's 5*98.

Guy

[ChrisCar6]

Just as well I didn't actually try and use that plan! I went 164 24v front discs on the rear instead!

[Bernard]

All finished and back on her wheels !

1419014191

[ProtoTipo]

Brilliant Phil,

So the thing to look out for is the 'yoke' part of those calipers?

[Bernard]

Brilliant Phil,

So the thing to look out for is the 'yoke' part of those calipers?

Yes Chris...the caliper mounting is the critical bit really... But it does provide a cheapish option and also will provide newer parts for the next few years

[ProtoTipo]

'Just for future reference Phil, are there any other part numbers you can quote for the rear brake parts you've bought?
Apart from:
Lucas 7795/1

With the benefit of your info, I see that the rear brake calipers on VW Mark 5 Golf GTis are very similar, if not the same?

[Bernard]

'Just for future reference Phil, are there any other part numbers you can quote for the rear brake parts you've bought?
Apart from:
Lucas 7795/1

With the benefit of your info, I see that the rear brake calipers on VW Mark 5 Golf GTis are very similar, if not the same?

Hi Chris

file:///C:/Users/phili/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image002.jpg
Alfa 147 1.6 1.9 2.0 3.2 156 1.9 2.0 2.4 2.5 3.2 00-10 Rear Caliper NEW
Please note: These calipers will only fit Brake Discs with a 10mm Thickness.


This is a brand new brake caliper to fit the vehicle listed in the item title and compatibility.



OEM Part Number:

77364540 Rear Right
77364538 Rear Left




Hope this helps...

Also sketch of Caliper mounting centre's

14202

[Bernard]

It missed the Logo off !!

APE Car Parts
(Automotive Parts Europe)

All off Flea Bay of course !

[Bernard]

Forgot the Discs...

MTEC Brakes
Alfa Romeo GT Coupe 3.2 04/04-10/08 Performance Sport Drilled and Grooved Rear Brake Discs+Pads

Rear Discs Specification:
Solid - Studs 5
Disc diameter 276.0mm
Disk thickness 10.0mm
Overall height 45.5mm
Centre diameter 59.0mm
Minimum thickness 9.0mm
Rear Mintex Pads