Restomods vs. Replicas

[hedge]

Reading about the latest tremblingly-gorgeous Restomod (the Cyan) got me thinking about the differences between a replica like a Lister Bell or Hawk vs. (say) an Alfaholics GTA-R. Donor engine to one side, for just a sec, how close is an LB to being a Restomod? What defines such a car? Is it solely the engine that makes the Stratos variants replicas rather than a resto? It's just that there is this commonly held snobbery attachment to replicas whereas a Restomod like an Eagle or Singer is absolutely fawned over. And priced accordingly, obvs.

Don't get me wrong, I personally couldn't care less what others think about "our" cars. There appears to be a bit of a grey area when it comes to defining what makes a Restomod appended such a categorisation? Or - as could well be the case - I'm talking entirely out of my behind.

Cheers,
Hedge

[ProtoTipo]

They're two different things.

A Banks Europa could be lumped in with that type of Volvo P1800. Or a Spyder Zetec plus 2.
A Stratos in the same vein would be a genuine car, fitted with a tuned 328 engine and modern wheels/tyres and big brakes (heaven forbid).
Not a kit car Stratos replica. They're just kit car Stratos replicas.

[hedge]

Ok, but the Cyan has a engine derived from the race series as well as AP brakes etc, so nothing genuine there.

I don't hear Caterhams commonly being referred to as kit cars so why an LB? A Caterham isn't called a kit car Lotus 7 replica, for instance.

I do appreciate LB's are perceived as such. That is what puzzles me.

Cheers,
Hedge

[ProtoTipo]

Well, it's the same with Lotus Elans.
People forget that a lot of them were first built in people's sheds.

In the case of the L.B. STR, it's a kit car first, and a turnkey product second.
I suppose the labelling would different if it was the other way round.

Perception of Stratos replicas has changed for the better in recent years. 'Not that it was ever that bad.
I wanted a Stratos kit from day one in the 1980s, no matter what other people's perception of them was.
This was a long long time before I could afford* one, or had driven one. (1997)

*I've never actually been able to afford one, but somehow it hasn't stopped me.

[Normb666]

I often think of LBs as about as close as you'd get to restomodding a Stratos. See, a restomod needs an original car as a base, and nobody in their right mind would do that sort of thing to a Stratos - there were simply too few made. E-Types and 911s, however, are just the thing, cos there were (are) loads about and re-engineering a few of those with modern underpinnings isn't gonna get anyone out of shape.

So yeah, a Hawk or an LB are firstly kits, and neither of them is a replica, which is a nut-and-bolt copy of an original. But whereas the Hawk is about trying to get as close to an original as it can, the LB eschews that and uses more modern parts, which is why I think of it as that aforementioned almost-restomod. And as Chris says, perceptions have changed - people, including those with serious car collections, are now very happy to add either car to their stable, and pay accordingly. I do think some of this is due to Lancias generally now being appreciated (at last!), and so these peeps know about the Stratos and its history, and our cars have been dragged upwards in that wake.

Chris, I too have never let affordability stop me when it comes to cars and bikes, except for the really exotic stuff like Ferraris and Lambos. Did have a 911 GT3 for a few years, and it was great, but sold it cos I knew I'd not be able to afford it if any big bills happened along. Still, 20K miles for not a lot... one service, one set of tyres, and lots of petrol and adrenaline :)

[Normb666]

Meant to say, Caterhams don't fit into the replica/restomod thing cos you can trace them back to the original Lotus, which had different motors and specs all along, so they're the original car, still in production, effectively, even though there's not a single interchangeable part. And because there's so little to them, they're easy to build, so there's no difference in factory or home-built cars...in fact I've got a factory-built one in the garage, and there are a couple of things on it that would have been done better/properly by someone doing their own car. Nothing that's a show-stopper, or not fixable, but it just goes to show. Still great fun though....except at this time of year (freezing just thinking about it!)

[hedge]

Chris, why is an LB STR "a kit car first & a turnkey product second"? Is that due to the numbers of each?

Cheers,
Hedge

[Strat Fan]

Chris, why is an LB STR "a kit car first & a turnkey product second"? Is that due to the numbers of each?

Cheers,
Hedge
Because it was launched, conceived and marketed primarily as a kit in the early days. The turn key side of the market was just a small percentage of the sales back then.
As the kits have evolved and the specs and the finish of the cars have evolved then I think the market for the turn keys has increased.
There is also probably a shift in the market where some of the customers who desire these cars are maybe better equipped financially than they were traditionally.
These customers may also be less well equipped to build their own car due to a lack of mechanical experience & also maybe have no desire to go rummaging around scrap yards for donor parts etc etc.
I think the replicas are best described as homage cars where they take the appearance of the originals but do not mimic the construction methods, materials & components of the originals.
Instead they tip the hat to the real Stratos but use a different chassis structure, body material, brake package, engine etc in attempt to make them easier to construct & more accessible to the everyman.

A true replica or continuation car would be something more like Gerry is working on where you start with a reproduction steel tub and then build a rivet replica from this using remanufactured or authentic parts along with a Dino engine.
As Chris says a restomod would involve the modification of an original steel monocoque chassis'd car which I don't think should really happen. The only other option would be to build from the Marchesi or GTO Tech reproduction chassis and then introduce a more modern Ferrari engine, oversize wheels, larger brakes, some carbon panels & an LCD dash etc etc. Who in their right mind would fit oversize wheels and brakes to a Stratos'.....

[Karnevil]

Because it was launched, conceived and marketed primarily as a kit in the early days. The turn key side of the market was just a small percentage of the sales back then.
As the kits have evolved and the specs and the finish of the cars have evolved then I think the market for the turn keys has increased.
There is also probably a shift in the market where some of the customers who desire these cars are maybe better equipped financially than they were traditionally.
These customers may also be less well equipped to build there own car due to a lack of mechanical experience & also maybe have no desire to go rummaging around scrap yards for donor parts etc etc.

I was just gonna rummage around LB and generally make a pest of myself till they gave me the bits i neededed...........gave/sold/donated...........

[hedge]

Because it was launched, conceived and marketed primarily as a kit in the early days. The turn key side of the market was just a small percentage of the sales back then.
As the kits have evolved and the specs and the finish of the cars have evolved then I think the market for the turn keys has increased.
There is also probably a shift in the market where some of the customers who desire these cars are maybe better equipped financially than they were traditionally.
These customers may also be less well equipped to build their own car due to a lack of mechanical experience & also maybe have no desire to go rummaging around scrap yards for donor parts etc etc.
I think the replicas are best described as homage cars where they take the appearance of the originals but do not mimic the construction methods, materials & components of the originals.
Instead they tip the hat to the real Stratos but use a different chassis structure, body material, brake package, engine etc in attempt to make them easier to construct & more accessible to the everyman.

A true replica or continuation car would be something more like Gerry is working on where you start with a reproduction steel tub and then build a rivet replica from this using remanufactured or authentic parts along with a Dino engine.
As Chris says a restomod would involve the modification of an original steel monocoque chassis'd car which I don't think should really happen. The only other option would be to build from the Marchesi or GTO Tech reproduction chassis and then introduce a more modern Ferrari engine, oversize wheels, larger brakes, some carbon panels & an LCD dash etc etc. Who in their right mind would fit oversize wheels and brakes to a Stratos'.....

Ah, ok, I think I get it now. When you use the word "homage" to describe the replicas, then that is my kind-of light bulb moment. I also didn't appreciate how they were originally conceived & marketed in the early days.

Thanks, all.

Cheers,
Hedge

[ProtoTipo]

I'm from the original group of people who witnessed the works and Chequered Flag cars performing in period. Consequently, aspiring to own the nearest thing I can get to a Stratos is deep rooted.
I think because of that, it matters less to me how the spaceframe kit replicas are pigeonholed these days.

[Longtimefan]

I'm from the original group of people who witnessed the works and Chequered Flag cars performing in period. Consequently, aspiring to own the nearest thing I can get to a Stratos is deep rooted.
I think because of that, it matters less to me how the spaceframe kit replicas are pigeonholed these days.

As you know Chris, I'm with you here, but because of circumstances in the intervening time I was late joining you with the aspiration. Having been involved with serious Rallying around the time prior to the advent of the Stratos, I have always considered the originals as a 'Kit Car', built for a purpose with bits assembled from around the various manufacturing facilities of the Fiat organisation and styling contractors at the time.

[LPH_UK]

There is also probably a shift in the market where some of the customers who desire these cars are maybe better equipped financially than they were traditionally.


Basically it's gone the same way as many other things and become 'gentrified' :)

[Normb666]

Back in the day I'd have given body parts for a Stratos... well, somebody else's body parts, anyhow ;) But as time moves on and I've got older and cars and components have developed, although the appeal of the Stratos concept hasn't dimmed, I'm much more inclined towards one with modern components, and therefore that's why an LB appealed to me so much. It doesn't have to be original, or as close as you can get, for me, although I fully understand why it does for others.
The other reason I like the idea of restomods or homages or whatever word you want to use, is because cars back in the day weren't particularly reliable - and that was when they were new...40 or 50 years on and they haven't improved any!

"Better equipped financially"....I like that! However, there are those who might have been in that situation before getting the car, but they're not now they've bought it :) :)

[hedge]

For me, personally, the Stratos was the first car I had a poster on the wall for, growing up as a nipper. Come the Eighties & I added an Integrale & a 288 GTO (whilst all my mates were putting up Athena pics of random women tennis players with tennis balls wedged up their underwear).

That wee collection never grew beyond those 3 cars; instead they died away in a myriad of house moves. Never for one nano second did I ever think I'd get to own any of them. "Many" years later & I'll be in the position ticking of two of those boxes.

To me, an Essex oik, that's just plain absurd. I guess I'm one of those who became "better equipped financially".

#theboydonegood

Cheers,
Hedge