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I posted comments on the Stratos Enthusiast Club Facebook page a few days ago, these comments have now been removed.
The comments I made were on a shared post by another club member from "Kingswell Coachworks". They were made immediately below a John Salley.
The screen shot below is of my post a few days ago.
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I have just taken a screen shot a few minutes ago and my post is gone...see below
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Can an Administrator from the Facebook page advise how this has happened as I have not removed it myself
Thanks
Phil
Bump !.............................
Normb666
19-07-2021, 19:07
The silence is deafening....the SEC FB page isn't something I bother with much, not having an FB account, but I'd have hoped someone would've responded to your request by now. But, can someone tell me what exactly our FB page does for the club? I'm assuming no-one pays to use it? - therefore, would it be any loss were we to close it down?
colleyv12
19-07-2021, 20:14
It's showing Mel and Ian as moderators of the group, I've not had anything to do with it.
It's got over 3500 members so obviously pretty popular. Usually it's just photos tho but that's no bad thing.
On facebook, whoever starts a thread has the option to either hide or report a comment (available by hovering over the 3 little dots to the side of the comment) so possibly that's whats happened. There are some sensitive souls out there.
Normb666
19-07-2021, 21:12
Thanks Ste - although I can view it, I can't post or see anything about moderators etc.
Jim, that's my point. 3500 people who're members of a FB page, but very few of them will be club members, so basically we're subsidising at least 3300 peoples' Stratos fetish! Ta for the info about who can edit an FB thread though.
It's not really subsidising anything tho is it and anyone can set up a page with that name or a variation of it. I thought the idea was to have as many folk conscious about Stratos things as possible, whether that be replicas, real ones, model ones or whatever. 3500 members seems to fulfill that remit.
Being honest, I didn't appreciate there was a link between the FB page and here until recently. The nature of public FB groups is that everything is transitory, you can't really search information easily and it's really ideal for folk posting, liking and occasionally commenting on photos of cats... err.. of cars. :rolleyes:
Stratos Fear
20-07-2021, 12:01
It was news to me that there was an SEC FB page. Even though I have an FB account (which I dont use) I will probably not be a regular visitor. There is only so much you can do in a day!
Normb666
21-07-2021, 16:07
I dunno, maybe it's just me who doesn't see the point of it. I have a look on there most days just to check that people are being nice to each other or equally, not saying anything that could harm the club. See, although you're right that anyone could set up such a page, this one happens to be the club's FB presence, and therefore there are things you can't say on there - such as refer to a replica as a Lancia. There have been rumblings of complaint before in such instances, when owners of genuine cars have rightfully had a go about people from here doing such a thing. And now that Stellantis have said that they're giving Lancia a chance to make a comeback, they might just get shirty about someone misrepresenting a car as one of their old 'uns, no matter how nice it is.
Anyhow, just cos I think it's waste of space doesn't mean I want to stop peeps having fun, but if I think activity there could harm the club, I'll do whatever's necessary to prevent such an outcome. In the instance referred to by Phil in his first post here, it was something said by Kingswell and re-posted on our page that started the alarm bells ringing. To be honest they should know better than to say something like that in the first place, but once it'd been pointed out by Phil
then others should have chimed in with condemnation, but they didn't, and in fact deleted his post instead. That's not something I'm best pleased about and is a major black mark against our FB members - most of whom, remember, aren't club members and therefore don't give a toss whether the club exists or not.
As far as I'm concerned, the way things stand at the mo is that our FB page is in danger of being closed down completely if people, including our moderators on there, don't start shaping up and acting responsibly. So, to whoever removed Phil's post - reinstate it if you can. And don't assume I'm not watching, or that I won't act to protect the club, because I will.
I like the Facebook page, it’s got loads of photos of the genuine stratos rally car and replicas in some great action shots!
In 2017 before I was a member of this club, I went to see rally Trasmiera in the basque region of Spain and took some Spanish friends also. It was a group B/group IV slowly sideways event with some fantastic cars there from all over Europe. We went to see our friends genuine RS200 take part. On that event there were only two (I believe?) stratos cars there and they were both replicas! I’ve only seen photos of that event and those cars on the Facebook page. Easily assessable on Facebook and nice to see. I’m sure they are on here somewhere also…but to be honest haven’t seen them or looked!
I think Facebook is an asset to the club. Let people know who you are, be proud of your cars, put photos of your own car up on there, put positive things up about your car, forget they’re replicas. Who cares!!! Get people outside the club engaging. These retro builds, chuck any engine in anything is ‘IN’ at the moment. Checkout retro powers YouTube channel out! They even have a LB on there.
If anyone mentions lancia or whatever or FB! Tell them and arrange or correct them! Delete if need be. If a post like Phil’s brings up an important point and it gets corrected. Once it gets corrected delete phils post as well. Just keep everything positive. And if you have a thing with lancias! take your lancia badges of your car and put LB or Hawk or whatever on them instead!
Honestly, it’s a good thing. I’m surprised they’re not more of your cars up on there!
Thats my newbie club member opinion!
Justin
Personally I wouldn't have a problem with the Facebook page , I do look at it regularly and enjoy looking at the pictures. Just prior to this thread being posted same day I posted a picture taken from the club calendar and informed visitors to the page that it was from the calendar it has had 85 likes 1 comment and 4 shares so far. Maybe the club could use the Facebook page to sell calendars coming up to Christmas etc. Possibly post a link to the club, promote ourselves on this page as a source of knowledge, everything Stratos, wanted for sale etc.
Just a thought , it seems to be a place where people just post and share pictures nothing wrong with that maybe the the club should utilize it more to they're advantage and encourage people to join the club.
Normb666
21-07-2021, 19:18
Justin, I'm not saying I'm about to bin off the FB page. What I'm doing is asking the moderators to get their act together and ensure the club's not put in a position where litigation might be forthcoming, which includes all sorts of things such as personal attacks against other people, misrepresentation of a car, or as in this case where a replica is touted as a Lancia. You might not think it's that big a deal, and it's easily dealt with, but I'd refer you to Jaguar Land Rover's recent court case against a Swedish couple who built a C-Type replica, and Suffolk Sportscars, who made a nice SS100 replica as well as a C-Type. The result was that Suffolk ended up going under, and the C-Type peeps lost, with Jaguar wanting their car to be destroyed. If an organisation took it into their head(s) to take umbrage at something on our Forum or FB page, to the degree that they decided to take court action, I don't think we'd come out of it too well - we're too small and don't have the financial resources to fight something like that, where we'd be on the back foot to start with. So as club chairman, where my remit is to administer the club such that it continues to give benefits to its members, I have to ensure that the club isn't brought into disrepute and therefore we have to be whiter than white....yep, serious sh*t!!
Who cares about replicas....well, a lot of car firms, actually. Ferrari are notorious for going after anyone who makes replicas of their cars, especially if they use Ferrari badging. Mercedes-Benz are another - they've had the moulds for a couple of 300SL replicas (the gullwing car) destroyed. So far we've been OK doing our Strat reps almost under the covers, but as Lancia rises from the (almost) dead who knows what they may decide to do? I'd rather not give them any more ammo, ta!
As for Lancia badges on individuals' cars, well that's up to a car's owner. I personally don't care if you badge your car Lancia, Honk or Loser Bull, but the respective manufacturers might, and the club can't endorse a car that carries a Lancia badge that isn't either manufactured by Lancia or hasn't been constructed at their behest. Or, thinking about it, that doesn't have some form of approval from them.....which right now, means all replicas!
For the avoidance of any doubt, and so anyone reading this knows - I'm deadly serious about this. I know I lark about, talk rubbish and tell crap jokes on here, cos life can be serious enough as it is. But I've been elected Club Chairman (and Secretary!) to perform a function, and part of that is to make sure our club continues into the future with its good reputation intact. I won't hesitate to act and remove anyone who tarnishes that reputation. And as I can't police our FB page personally, and I rely on our Mods to do that, then I'll close it down if those Mods aren't up to the job of doing it on our behalf. Do we all understand???
Kenny, ta for the input - just seen your post as I was typing this. I don't think the people who use the FB page, who aren't members, have any interest in joining the club. Just recently someone with a genuine car posted on there and was informed he could also post on the Forum if he joined up, but he said "no, I'm happy on here, thanks". Fair nuff. But, if you think we could improve things FB-wise, what d'ya say to giving it a go and doing that for us? I for one would be grateful!
I think the issue is that it's called the SEC Facebook page, but it doesn't seem to be controlled by any elected members.
Those having moderator status ( and editorial status it seems.....) have no accountability to the membership.
Stratos Enthusiasts page, OK. SEC page, NOK.
PM sent Norm , to regards above.
Normb666
21-07-2021, 20:30
John - well put. I sense an AGM Agenda item appearing.... ;)
Kenny - reply sent. Thanks a lot!
I personally think you are over thinking it. It's Facebook. It is what it is. Just go with the flow. I'd be surprised if more than a dozen of the 3500 folk who have "joined" the page would be aware there's any association with this club or forum.
Norm, if it is giving you any momentary concern as Chairman then delete the page of you think that's what you need to do. I may think that's a silly thing to do but there's no end-game in trying to moderate the content of a facebook group. It's like herding cats. The vacuum will quickly be filled by someone else or some other group and the same photo, comment and content will appear elsewhere as they currently do anyhow but you will have separated the C of the SEC from the SE. There might be a storm in a teacup for 2 seconds then nowt because at the end of the day I don't think anyone cares. As I say, it's a facebook page. Google indexes over 620 Million facebook groups. 1 less won't matter.
Normb666
21-07-2021, 21:51
Cheers Jim, appreciate the input. Thing is, I don't want to delete the FB thing as 3500 users seem to find it some sort of temporary distraction....and yes, it's FB, but it's also Stellantis, who're a whole different thing entirely!
Yes, I get that it might seem I'm over-reacting, but we've already had previous grief over some people calling their replicas a Lancia Stratos in a situation where they shouldn't, and where genuine cars were also represented. Face(book) it, if you had a rare car and someone you didn't know had built a replica for a tenth of what yours is worth, and then tried passing it off as genuine, you'd be pissed off too. And although the chance of a manufacturer taking umbrage is small, remember Jaguar never bothered with replicas of their old motors till recently, when they got very heavy....and look what happened...
So, although the chance of litigation is small, I'd look a total useless tosser of a chairman if it was something I just couldn't be arsed to try and prevent. Agreed that no-one here cares that much cos it's "just the club", but Stellantis will care, and so I have to care too on behalf of all you lot :)
I'm just disappointed that seeming professionals in the industry, as well as those here who should know better, don't care enough to get obvious details like this right. If it was me who'd spent all that time and dosh bringing a car to market, I'd damn well make sure it was referred to as what it really was and not referred to as some old almost-dead manufacturer's!
As some of you know I have been a member of this club since day one and have seen various people come and go, various situations have also come and gone. The use of the word “Lancia” on our cars or in advertising, on a competition entry form etc, has been a bone of contention to some out there for years.
The original point of my Facebook post was to bring to the attention of Hawk Cars that the paint shop (Kingswell) had used the word Lancia, and as such they may wish to do something about it in a softly softly way, that was something for them to consider, also it was to the SEC who site it is displayed on and who could be accused of association.
I can assure you that my thoughts didn’t go any deeper than that.
Therefore the use of words or title can be a serious issue, which if we can avoid a “serious issue” by just removing one word from an advert it can save potential legal problems. So I can fully understand why Norm is taking this point seriously, and quite right too.
The thing that irritated me was that someone had removed my Facebook post without any explanation to myself whatsoever.
Karnevil
22-07-2021, 11:13
I like the facebook page.
Comments photo's and video clips pop up on there and,providing you are following the page one gets informed of everything that is posted,making it,in a way more inclusive.....you don't specifically have to go looking for a type of comment or picture.
The forum,however,I find a more secure,specific,place where I am happier to post and discuss more private/security sensitive info(if people understand my meaning) and also I know that any info asked for and given will be more likely than not trustworthy.
Now,I read the opening post on here and looked on the FB page and TBH did not understand.
If I am now to have gained the correct idea the crux of the matter is a concern that it may seem that a body is passing off,either deliberately or accidentally,non genuine Strato's as genuine Strato's yes?
I suppose this could be addressed by setting out in the rules that 1.The admins of the page do not condone such practice and any post not making genuine or replica clear will be removed.
2. anyone posting must make clear they are discussing/posting about a) genuine,b) replica or c) unknown.
Vetting new members could also be added to the joining/liking process and maybe a few more Mods could be recruited.
I would happily offer to Mod,but would add the caveat that I am NOT all that knowledgeable about the genuine article but would give it a go.
Or..................maybe I have missunderstood the whole thing?
I would happily offer to Mod,but would add the caveat that I am NOT all that knowledgeable about the genuine article but would give it a go.
Sounds like the perfect volunteer to me :D
The Slug
23-07-2021, 01:33
Hello Phil,
I set up the page as I did the forum. However Facebook and myself have never got on, so thankfully Paddy Boyce has run it almost from day 1. A SEC member last I heard.
However I still have control of the page but rarely get involved with it as I have no clue how to make it do what it should.
That said, I have just seen your post on here, and have checked, and I can confirm that:
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I have undone that for you, as I done see anything wrong in your post.
Regards
Ian
Normb666
23-07-2021, 13:55
Excellent result, and a big Ta to Ian for that. Ian, I know you don't come on here as often as you used to, and I know you're not a big FB fan, and I therefore also don't expect you to be constantly scanning posts for suitability, so I appreciate you sorting this one out.
So, it appears that FB annihilation has been averted thanks to our very own Bruce Willis-type guy, but going forward we need to be more alert to what's happening on the club's sites that could potentially damage it. And I think if posts are to be deleted, then a message to the person who posted is in order to explain why.
Agree with with what you say Norm a PM sent to a person if a post or comment is going to be removed is the correct thing to do explaining the reasons why.
Just for clarification . Gerry has made it clear over the years that Hawk Cars will never call one of their cars a Lancia Stratos . All his Replica/tribute cars of the Stratos have always been called by the term Hawk HF's .
HF followed by the engine capacity in cc
Example HF 2000 = Beta 2000cc
HF 3000 = Alfa 3000cc V6
With reference to his comment on the Stratos Enthusiasts Club Facebook page again for clarification , when Gerry replied to Phil's comment with "Philip Dolby I think we better not !!!" he was referring to Phil's first post which read " should we be using the term Lancia Stratos ..?? we have been through this sort of thing before many times" in other words Gerry agreed with Phil that the car should not have been called a Lancia Stratos.
Some people may have interpreted Gerry's reply incorrectly thinking he was replying to Phil's 2nd comment which read "but should someone ask them to edit their post". This was not the case.
The paint shop should not have used the word Lancia Stratos but they did state that the car in question "is the first in a new batch of steel bodied cars being produced by Hawk Cars" they also stated "recreating the iconic 70s rally cars". By the fact of the above statement they are acknowledging that this is not an original car or being passed of as one.
However it is correct that they should not have used the term Lancia Stratos.
The thread was originally started asking as to why comments had been removed from the Facebook page, it appears they have been reinstated which was the correct thing to do.
Normb666
23-07-2021, 17:26
Kenny, thanks for the clarification. TBH I'd already taken Gerry's post to mean what you just said, but as as we know context and state of mind count for a lot when absorbing written material, so I suppose it's easy to see why others would have read it differently.
I also understand why Kingswell said what they did, and how they present the cars they've got in the shop is their business, but we have to be careful when their words get copied to a club site. Anyway. All good now on that front, but the big question is, who removed Phil's post, and why? Whoever it was, step forward please, you're not going to be put in detention or be given 500 lines - we just want to iron this out so it doesn't happen again.
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