Not really new here

[mudhut]

Hello all,

I haven't really just joined but have not been active here for some years although have been continuously paid-up. Plenty of names I don't recognise and a few that I do.

The impending sale of my house and workshop means I must consider giving my car. My son is now old enough to appreciate it having long-ago got the VX220 with billy boy exhaust out of his system and I'm thinking of giving it to him, especially as getting out of it or under it is increasingly difficult. I have quite a bit of recommisioning to do in order to move it as up until a week ago, the car had its rear suspension out for more than ten years... Not to mention the brakes (a complete basket case, now nearly sorted).

One of the tab washers for the top of the rear strut on my Hawk has lost its tab so I have drawn a CAD image of it for water jet or laser cutting. If there's any interest in me having a batch of these done, please drop a note in this thread and if there's enough interest, I'll start a new thread in the for sale section. There doesn't seem to be any on the Beta forum so if there's little or none here, I'll resort to a drill and file. Perhaps most people have moved on from the old Beta front strut rubber mountings.

No good inquiring "how much?" as I've absolutely no idea. My local electroplaters (Hampshire Electroplating) may have a minimum order size so yellow zinc passivating may be a problem. Could be cut from zintec or similar but that would leave raw edges.

Any comments welcome.

[hollytree]

I recently did up a bathroom(Dont ask!). My wife had bought 10mm thick twin layer glass tiles with a patterned metal foil film between the 2 layers. None of the local tilers or tile companies would touch them to cut them.
In the end I had to do all the decorating. I measured up what tile cuts I needed and Water Jet at Halifax cut them all for me for about ?30.
The guy just laid them on the machine bed, typed in the sizes I wanted and 65,000 psi water did a fantastic jobs with smooth but perfect edges.
I asked what they could cut and he said 4" steel no trouble.
If you have a CAD file, they just punch it into the computer and away it goes cutting loads of them the same.
Might be worth asking https://www.waterjetuk.com/

[ProtoTipo]

Hi Peter,

It's great to hear from you!

I think your possible Beta strut top tab washer production is a good idea.
I'm using Beta rubber strut tops on mine, but with GAZ struts. The GAZ struts have the 'D' shaped threaded part, but uses a nyloc and a round washer.
We have Beta owners on here. At least two I can think of.

I had a run of S1 Beta wood gear lever knobs made not so long ago. Mainly for people on here, but some of them went into BetaBoyz stock.

[Guy Mayers]

Well I'm a Beta owner as Peter knows but the shell is still being restored. I had a small stock of these tab washers replaced locally but they're not perfect. I'll have to look at the new strut inserts I picked up a couple of weeks ago to see if they take the tab washers or rely on Nylocs. I might be interested in a set or two if they don't Peter!

Hope you manage to sort the Beta handbrake calliper out this week.

Cheers
Guy

[mudhut]

Thank you all three.

Hollytree:
I did a bit of research on you here and now I've forgotten what I saw but I think it was you who used to live Portsmouth way and moved to foreign parts (sorry Chris). I will contact some local companies but as you have recommended them, I'll get in touch with WJUK to see what they can offer and if I can get some economy of scale without buying by the thousand. Chris and Guy will know if my drawing is sufficiently accurate to be used for restoration and the like. It might just as well be right as wrong. An A4 size pice of steel will do about 49 of them but there may be constraints that I'm not aware of like how close the parts can be placed. I'll see. I think laser cutting is likely to be cheaper because there's more competition but I don't have any evidence one way or another.

Guy:
I persuaded the Italian seller of the callipers to post them but he won't do it inside eBay - probably due to eBay commission charges on postage. Expensive purchase but I think of it as insurance. I'll recondition the single one I'm buying from Neil if it welds well and the other two as well, barring catastrophes. I'm documenting everything for my son.

The calliper I'm replacing is an odd thing. It looks for all the world like a beta calliper as indeed it may well be but the iron claw is a very loose fit and it is tha alloy part that's the problem. The piston has a flat circlip and not the wire type that I was expecting. The machined groove in a replacement piston is for the thick wire circlip and that's a part that would prove difficult to get I think. When I took out the calliper, the flat circlip had come out of its groove and when replaced it, there was no play at all in the piston's handbrake adjuster mechanism - I've seen a diagram that shows some "slack" in this part where I had none at all, which would have made the mechnism difficult to turn. I think this lack of play is why the circlip had not seated properly and had come out - it won't now but it was a bit of a fiddle to get it properly seated. So what's it from? Only possibles that I can see aside of a Beta is a Trevi, possibly early Thema 2.0 (maybe V6 too), possibly early Delta 1.6 or Gamma. The Gamma has the same "thick end" on the cable outer and the small ball-type nipple.


Chris:
I've just bought a gear knob from the chap in Italy with the rear Beta callipers that Guy pointed me at. It's from a Beta but I seem to remember that the original may have been from a Fulvia and not identical to the Beta item. It's gloss varnished too - don't know if correct like that. As I'm about to sell my house (auction Tuesday), I've sold my milling machine and my lathe I've dismantled and put it into storage. Now no longer teaching, I can't avail myself of the machinery at school any more or I would turn a gear knob and an insert. I saw something on one of your threads about rear spring rate for a Beta-engined car. Mine have 175 painted on them but I don't know the units of measurement. Nobody would work in lbf/in now would they? Obviously not N/cm so possibly kg/cm? I'd have had a fit if the kids in school had used units like that or written them like that too.

I think Dampertech and Gaz may be related, as it were. My Leda struts were replated, rebuilt and revalved with softer valving by Dampertech about ten years ago as the piston rods were unevenly worn and weeping. The old rods had been sawn off so that the rear cover would close but the new ones are as you describe with the flat but mine also have a hex key recess too. Not too long either, so very pleased. I'll still use the tab washer and I'll post my drawing of it. If you don't think it looks quite right, let me know - I have radiused the entry to the tab by eye (6mm) as my radius gauges are in storage as are my drill bits that I'd use for testing. I've chamfered the ends of the tab. The rest is by measurement of an original. Happy to change this if you think it better to do so for accuracy or aesthetic reasons - please don't be afraid to say so if a change is needed.

22876

[ProtoTipo]

I'll see if I have an OE tab washer Peter.
I might have some Beta brake parts, but I'll check.
Dampertech do refurb Leda struts. I had a pair of Vince's old Leda struts done there.

[mudhut]

I was really pleased with the work by Dampertech and not to expensive either. Don't go hunting for callipers yet Chris - I have two being sent from Italy tomorrow and another being sent from Neil on the Beta Forum some time this week too.

I'd appreciate you checking my measurement against an OE part, Chris. Mine are a bit beaten up but look to be 1.5mm thick. 18 SWG may do if that's all I can get easily but If I'm going to do a copy, I want to get it right. Shiny yellow zinc passivate may be a problem with my local electroplaters - last time I did carb parts it cam back matt but so long ago that I don't remember of shiny was an option. Should be shiny, I think.

[hollytree]

Peter
Hi
I grew up in Portsmouth and my future wife (we met in 1979 at school and married in 2000) and I moved to London in late 70s to get jobs.
We moved to the dark North (Skipton area) in 2019 'cos the kids went to northern universities and would not come back to London because of housing costs.
The man at WJUK was very good.
Good luck with whatever you do

[ProtoTipo]

I'd appreciate you checking my measurement against an OE part, Chris. Mine are a bit beaten up but look to be 1.5mm thick. 18 SWG may do if that's all I can get easily but If I'm going to do a copy, I want to get it right. Shiny yellow zinc passivate may be a problem with my local electroplaters - last time I did carb parts it cam back matt but so long ago that I don't remember of shiny was an option. Should be shiny, I think.

Peter,
I've checked an OE Beta tab washer with calipers, and your drawing and thickness (1.5mm) are correct. I wonder if the 36mm measurement might need another 0.5mm? Mine measures 36mm, but the tab is not completely flat. I've got two, so I'll flatten the worst one and check that measurement.

The OE Beta tab washer fits the Hawk GAZ rear strut.

[ProtoTipo]

I've got two, so I'll flatten the worst one and check that measurement.

The measurement is 37mm, now that I've flattened the OE tab washer out. 'Not much in it really?

[mudhut]

Getting quotes for tab washer cutting. I've increased the length of the tab by 1mm Chris.

WJUK have quoted GBP 75 to include tumbling for deburring purposes. This would yield about 95 washers, but seems pricey to me. A company local to me is going to quote for laser-cut parts which they say will be cheaper than water jet.

Yellow zinc passivate is expensive. Hampshire Electroplating (were always expensive, even 50 years ago) have a minimum charge of GBP 70 (plus VAT I presume). With my house move etc, I can't gather enough bits to make the plating charge cost-effective. To keep my up front outlay down propose to have the parts cut but not plated so builders and restorers can add them to their own piles of parts for plating or do it themselves. It still means that the things are going to end up at around ?0.94 each supplied at cost plus p&p. I don't want to profit from this but I don't want to make a loss either.

I will likely attempt to do the plating myself when the occasion arises.

What does anybody think? I really don't want to be left with a stack of the things. No interest from the Beta Forum. Any other uses for these?

[hollytree]

Peter
You are doing a lot of work -well done.
I would love to help you by adding to your order quantity, but having a Corse means I cannot use them. (i dont even know what they do)

[LPH_UK]

How many are needed? I have a local friendly laser cutting place that would do it. And will do any min order.

[mudhut]

How many are needed? I have a local friendly laser cutting place that would do it. And will do any min order.

Not really sure about numbers. Most use locking nuts but the sticklers for originality may want to do it as it originally was with rubber mounts, cup washer, tab washer and plain nut. Took a guess that about 100 would more than cover it and could go into stock at Betaboyz or here if they wanted to keep them. I have the feeling now that about 20 would do it. There must be other cars that could make use of them but I don't know which and most will use nyloc, simmonds or similar. I have coneloc nuts on mine so don't actually need tab washers but the car came to me with those too.

The places I have approached will do any size order but the electroplating has a minimum order.

[LPH_UK]

Yeah, the electroplating would not be something my place could not do. They could make them in stainless but I guess that's not as original so not an option?

[ProtoTipo]

It looks like it has a part number. 'Something to cross reference for other car fitments?

[Stableblock]

Laser or water jet cutting will leave quite a sharp edge on these compared to stamping which would have been the original process. If they are going to be plated then it would be worth enquiring about having them vibro tumbled to smooth the edges before plating. Some platers offer the tumbling and I think some cutting services do too.

[mudhut]

Chris: Good call. Tab washer is 82326379. All Beta models: two on the front struts and the same on the rear. Price is €6.87 at www.original-auto-teile.de and special offer at www.autoricambilineaverde.it for €8.10. Gasp. Neither of these sites indicate which other models of FIAT, Lancia or Alfa are applicable. Trevi is likely of course. Not early Delta. Not enough info on Gamma online. Struggling to find parts references on forums - they tend to guard this stuff. Deleting the 1mm chamfer on the tabs now I've seen a decent picture online.

Peter: WJUK have allowed for this (see my post, No. 11 above). The local place I've sent the dxf file to has got back to me and they want just over GB P90 including tax but there's a min order of GBP 120. That's pretty bad, I'd say, especially when they said laser cutting would be cheaper.

WJUK were exceptionally quick to respond and also really helpful but I think that progress has been poor and costs high. I may have to abandon this due to lack of demand.

[ProtoTipo]

Ah?, so the there's a bend on the tab as OE? I didn't know that.
Peter, 'see PM regarding Italian suppliers.

[mudhut]

There is a bend Chris but the corners of the tabs look square to me - definitely not clipped off by 1mm.

[ProtoTipo]

There is a bend Chris but the corners of the tabs look square to me - definitely not clipped off by 1mm.

Maybe that was just wear and tear?

'Forgot to say;
Trevi is nailed on. I wondered about Gammas.
I've looked at Ritmos, Montes/X1/9/128 Deltas etc., but they are all different to the Beta, but similar to each other.

[ProtoTipo]

Trevi is nailed on.

Before someone says "No, it'll be a threaded nut", I mean the Trevi is a definite. A Trevi is a Beta Sedan, near enough.

[mudhut]

HaHa. Of course.

[NoCorseChris]

Hi Peter. Good to see you back. I still 'lurk' here.....

I also still have that lovely 12V timing template you laser cut for me, in pride of place in a display cabinet in the lounge ;)

[mudhut]

Good to hear from you Chris. I thought I cut it from pink acrylic - I wouldn't have it in my lounge...

Are you still building Seven type cars?

[NoCorseChris]

You did indeed, and it's glorious :)

Finished building the 'Midlana' a while back, did some tinkering, it's now sorted as I like it....but I never use it. I strongly suspect I will try to sell it soon. Daft having it sat in the shed never going anywhere. Sadly, I gave absolutely zero consideration to what I would actually do with it once it was built. One of the reasons I sold the Corse was that I no longer enjoyed driving. That hasn't really changed, and now I'm retired, I do even less, and we still have the Westfield, so really, what was I thinking.....(hint, clearly I wasn't). Vickie keeps trying to encourage me to use the car more but as I say, no joy driving on the roads these days. No interest in track days or the like. Basically I'm a miserable, reclusive, misanthrope.

Can't imagine how difficult it will be selling something like this though. Not as if there are any others out there to compare it to.

[ProtoTipo]

One of the reasons I sold the Corse was that I no longer enjoyed driving. That hasn't really changed, and now I'm retired,
Basically I'm a miserable, reclusive, misanthrope.

I can relate to all this, Chris.