Sold, Deposit now taken, pending collection
My Corse on Ebay for sale, still looking at buying another property to buy so seeing what it reaches
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184825858977
Will give an idea on values hopefully
Regards Steve
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Sold, Deposit now taken, pending collection
My Corse on Ebay for sale, still looking at buying another property to buy so seeing what it reaches
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184825858977
Will give an idea on values hopefully
Regards Steve
So it's not so much you getting out of Strats for keeps, just a way of raising money for a house?
Well, I guess you can't live in a Stratos (unless you're very small)....then again, you can't go for a drive in a house. Although I suppose you could have a flat :)
Good luck with the sale!
I'll bet this sells quicker than the Pirelli one....
Shame it's got to go Steve but good luck with the sale.
Yeah, you know how it is with those Pirelli ones doncha ;)
As Ste says, it'll be interesting to see how it ends up price-wise. If only it was LHD....probably fetch £170K I believe
If only Norm, definitely not out of stratos ownership hopefully, this is my 3rd place, so looking to free up capital, will hopefully be able to.put a deposit on a hawk or lb later of available.
One of your better ones Norm :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Normb666
You need to be aware that a lot of the watchers on eBay will be us from this site seeing how the price is going! Good luck!
Hawk dash?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoTipo
Bought it from Struan at Stoneleigh a few years back
I see?Quote:
Originally Posted by colleyv12
'Probably became surplus because of a group 4 dash decision?
Correct, from my Alitalia car, Chris!Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoTipo
I've got some parts of that car!Quote:
Originally Posted by StruanR
Would this car be a candidate to convert to LHD or is it too much work to be practical? It is difficult for me as I have no cars to look at here in Canada. Buying sight unseen is never good either. Without offending anyone which is next to impossible these days, are there certain renditions of the Stratos that are less desirable than others? I realize that the build quality is the most important factor though. In my case the car must have been built at least 15 years ago to be eligible for import. Any and all comments appreciated, thanks.
As I understand it the car is not registered and therefore you may struggle to prove it ' over 15 years old.
The kit which forms the basis of this car is well over 15 years old though if that would satisfy your import authorities.
Converting the Corse chassis to lhd is fairly straightforward.
You would need to cut out the front bulkhead which mounts the pedal box etc, and turn it round. The custom steering rack will convert by popping put the pinion and reversing it.
Other than that you will need a new dash moulding, but thats about it.
James, if it's the date of the construction of the kit, that's LB (ListerBell) out as they've only been around since 2010. So you've got, from the earliest kits in 1986/87, the Handmade Allora and Transformer HF, then the Allora became the Litton Corse in 1989, and then in about 1992 it was taken over by CAE. Following that it again changed hands to become Napiersport, in about 2004, which ceased production in...actually I'm not sure, but think it was about 2012? The Transformer stayed in production all the time, but a there was a name change to Hawk HF3000 - still under Gerry Hawkridge's ownership, and still going today.
All these cars have been improved or re-engineered as time went by, as certain donor parts became scarce, or to provide a better product (when the Allora became the Corse, for example, the chassis was totally redesigned). As you rightly say, the build is all-important, although with the age of some of these cars considerable rebuilding and restoration could have occurred, which could also have included engine swaps from the Lancia Beta twin cam to the Alfa V6.
The car you're looking at here seems to have been produced in 1992, but I don't think it's actually been registered, so that could scupper your plans anyway. As for conversion to LHD....well, anything's possible, if you're clever enough and/or have enough money! No doubt someone with more experience will be along shortly to give you a yay or nay on whether it's a practical proposition.
....ah, there ya go, John's posted while I was typing this :)
There are LBs in Canada - if you look at the club member list you'll be able to discover who's got them and where they are - so there must be a way to get them into the country. Or does it vary by state, and BC has particularly tough legislation?
By the way, meant to say - the cars that are undesirable are just the ones you can't buy for whatever reason :)
Have you seen the Pirelli Hawk car on Ebay? There's a whole thread on it on the forum...and the price keeps going up and down....!!
The consensus on this car is that it's overpriced but as it doesn't appear to be attracting bids the seller may be amenable to offers? Maybe not but....Quote:
Originally Posted by Normb666
Being an early Hawk (or late Transformer) it is possible to convert this chassis to LHD but there's a compromise as the spine of the car is offset to the left to give more foot room in the right. It's about 3/4 inch which doesn't sound much but does make it a little cramped down there. Add to that you'd want to move the set closer to the centreline for driving comfort then the rear bulkhead might need moving slightly. More complex is moving the seat belt upper mounts to suit - just weld on a wrap around bar is the easiest solution. Pedalbox will probably need a new upper bulkhead making. Dash obviously, that's the opportunity to convert to Group4. Steering is actually better as LHD allows a direct route from fixed upper column to rack with no additional intermediate shaft. The wiper should also be swapped to the other side of the plinth leaving a hole to be filled/adapted for a fire extinguisher or battery kill switch. There are a couple of minor technical points too that shouldn't put you off. The main concern with the eBay one is the description on the V5 as still being a Lancia which might cause import difficulties. Not sure what the rest of the description of the model is but that might help?
If you want full details I'll try and find the full thread on covering it. Basically what I did to my car a few years back and John did to a car exported to France a year or two back.
Guy
Litton corse,it was posted in a reply provisionally sold on Kit Cars Facebook page last night. Hopefully a good result.
EU buyer now says the TUV will cause issues and has pulled out, although 3 others are viewing so fingers crossed. Hoping my motorhome sells.first thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by Kenny m
£17,725.00 would be the going rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by colleyv12
Very good price that bearing in mind the amount of work required to finish to a good standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoTipo
Hi Andrew,Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkspeed
Reserve wasn't met, but yes, an indicator of the potential buying price.
I still have a few people interested, but I'm talking to Scottish kit car centre to see if they can finish it and put it through IVA for me
Good man, Ste. I think you're doing the right thing by looking to get others to finish it. Although if it goes to the Scottish kit car centre, I bet it comes back with "fully independent" suspension and painted mid-blue with a white cross and there'll be some built-in system that prevents it ever crossing the English border.
As for Ebay, if you'd really wanted to sell it, I think you'd have been better with a straight sale rather than an auction, and just named a price. I'm not sure the auction actually shows what the buying price might be, just what a lot of hopeful bidders thought they might have to fork out to grab a bargain....
Quote:
Originally Posted by colleyv12
In general, I certainly think the pool of genuine potential purchasers for a completed, road legal, car is bigger than the pool for something unfinished, unknown, relatively expensive and a potentially future money-pit.
Right, I'll re-write what I just said as it didn't read correctly....
Jim, I understand that "the unknown" tends to put people off, but people who don't really understand the world of Strat reps and what they cost won't see what the potential is with this car. Assuming it'd sell for £20-25K, I think (finger in the air) that a paint job, retrim and work to make IVA-compliant would come to about £10K or a bit more, so then you've got a decent Strat rep for £35K. Unless the reserve was £30K, I don't think it was expensive. But you've got to see past your initial impressions....it's an unfinished project, after all. Maybe people are getting spoiled by pics of shiny Alitalia cars :)
"Potential future money pit"....hahaha, that's any high-end car, then :)
By "relatively expensive" I meant that, in my world, £17k plus is a lot for any unfinished kit-car project where you'd have to take a guesstimate of how long it might take and how much it might cost to put it on the road and where your best guess might be years out and maybe multiple thousands of pounds out. Far better to either under-price it at a fixed price to see if you can swiftly move it on or take it to the stage where it's a known quantity with a value that's easier to establish. Shiny Alitalia cars are a bad comparison since they are common. ;)
Sorry, which car are we talking about here?Quote:
Originally Posted by renmure
LOL.......Quote:
Originally Posted by john
Quite!Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkspeed
Or what you can get instead for this chunk of money, or often even less - instead of an incomplete & unregistered, non-IVA-d, non-exportable kit-car.
Like this random sample (but with no connection to any of their sellers):
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1273450 (or...)
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/11580570 (or...)
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1337633 (or...)
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1282658 (And so on, and so forth...)
Being fortunate enough to retain both a Fulvia and a (modern) Abarth 124 Spider amongst my modest fleet; and recognising that they're both infinitely more satisfactory & satisfying to own/drive than any Stratos replica I've ever owned/driven; I'm left here to wonder - just like others above, from Renmure to Darkspeed - exactly why all this madness?
The natural result, maybe, of a coming-together between something like the 'Dutch Tulip Bubble' and the inescapable 'Laws of Supply-v-Demand'; yet I do genuinely believe there's some serious comfort to be had for we (less-pecunious) readers of this interesting thread from remembering just how much better value & sheer driving pleasure can still be obtained nowadays, out of spending rather less?
(Here endeth the lesson, though I doubt not, the controversy...)
Hi Clive, nice to see you're still around! :)
I guess you weren't that enamoured of your Stratos, from what you're saying...I get that, because they were never designed for regular, ordinary use, but for motorsport, so any considerations of "habitability" never came into it. They'll always demand a lot from a driver/owner, because that's their nature; and if it's too much like hard work, then you can go for "regular" classics. And yes, there are some wonderful inexpensive classics out there that we all love (lost count of how many Fulvias I've had, including a 1600 Zagato and a RHD Fanalone, and only last year sold my "modern" 124 Spider). But as for cost, well, the cost of a particular type of car has nothing to do with any rational set of guidelines. If it did, why would any Countach be worth what they are? Awkward to use, uncomfortable, can't even reverse one without sitting on the sill...No, people pay a lot of moolah for an exotic-looking car because of what it means to them, the feelings it can invoke, not based purely on practical considerations.
As for how a Strat rep drives, well, they're all different - they're all dependent on the build quality, the chassis design, and the suspension setup (all fully adjustable, so all capable of being totally crap if someone doesn't know what they're doing!)
The car discussed here is, as you say, incomplete, unregistered, and has no IVA, exactly as advertised. Why is that a bad thing? So is every kit that comes from a manufacturer. If it's not for you ("you" as in, any particular person), then that's fine, but it doesn't make it a bad buy for someone. It's still a lot cheaper than going to LB or Hawk and that's why it's not a bad price for a car you can finish yourself, even if it ultimately won't be as good a car as either of those. As someone recently said to me, yes you can get a ot of pleasure out of a different car for £17K, but nothing else looks like, or is, a Stratos, and that's what people want.
Anyhow, on with the show.... :) :)
OK, I think we've found the guy who's annoyed that he sold his Stratos before prices went up. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveHundred
If any of the cars you listed looked like a Stratos and drove like a Stratos, you'd have a very valid point. However...
As I am currently re building a Litton Corse i - I do have a vested interest in keeping an eye on prices and knowing the shortcomings of the Corse I also have a fair idea of the worth even in these vastly inflated times. My own car never actually had a Litton body and I followed the path of many Litton builders who had dumped the dreadful Litton glass and opted for an LB body. I had contemplated getting rid of the Honda engine and going Alfa but the Busso for all its fans does not hold a candle to the engineering of the Honda C27 lump or its voice. As with the 1600 chassis Litton I would have had to chop the entire rear cradle off and rebuilt the chassis from bulkhead back to get the Busso in and whilst well within my own capabilities not an option - the Jag V6 was also considered but when I tore a Honda down and saw inside - that idea soon went.
And here for me is where the economics at £17K never mind what the reserve was for an unregistered Litton fail. As Norm highlights if you spent £35K you would have a half decent finished 1600 1990's Litton ! - But that's a lot of cash that could be spent with LB to have a car worth upwards of £50K! - If you want a V6 in that Litton its another £7.5 K - so we are now at £42.5K for a 1990's Litton - Still with that questionable quality glassfibre bodywork.
Granted you could do it all on the cheap and if it sold for £20K maybe get the 1600 Litton on the road for an extra £5K - It's still a 90HP Stradale on 4 studs with the Litton standard of bodywork.
I will admit that these stupid prices being offered for low quality offerings have me wondering why I am bothering to rebuild mine at all - its not that I am likely to drive it much when finished.
Have some fun - If an unregistered 1600 Litton is worth £18K - well that's what eBay bidders say - hardly a glowing reference but hey.
What's a registered - 1993 Q Litton Corse I worth - project still in rebuild so a blank canvas with hours of anger and frustration ahead.
Whilst rebuilding the old dog in public on Retro rides I have had more than a few enquiries - but none have ever really taken me up on "Yes everything I have is up for sale at the right price so make me an offer I could not possibly refuse" They generally respond with "Wat's your best price" - as simple English is clearly beyond them I wander off to work on some Ginetta or other.
Modified strengthened Chassis
Door bars - Rear back stays and more.
The Bespoke alloy uprights - Scorpio hubs
LB Group 4 Square arch body - LB ducted bonnet type - Gel finish in wonderful Melon Yellow
Chin spoiler
LB group 4 dash - LB full set Group four gauges
The nice LB Stainless door hinges - Light lifters &MX5 lift motors
Stainless LB GP4 steering support
Carrello Head lamps
All new rear lamps - Front Hella Fogs etc.
Hawk ribbed lamp closing boxes - not the flat LB ones
Lightweight LB door poly windows
Tilton pedal box
Custom Nitron coil overs
Honda V6 - 2 off - gearboxes 2 off
1st Standard engine with Triumph Throttle bodies
2nd New Bottom end - low mileage heads - Special one off solid lifter Kent Cams race cams
One off manifold for triple IDFs from British championship winning autograss racer
2 sets IDFs Good s/h 40's and Brand new 44's running 36mm chokes.
New Megasquirt and S/H Omex 550
Lightweight fly
Full stainless exhaust
Original Rad - Duplex fans
All the usual X1/9 parts clasps and locks handbrakes steering etc.
Couple of Sparco race seats - Meh!
Fuel pumps
Stainless tank in mid modification
An alloy O/S Litton Tank
Sheets of new alloy
Bags of rivets
Tins of Epoxy chassis paint
A bucket of Scorpio brake parts
Some wheels and tyres to roll it about on
Old Willans harnesses
Loads of other odds and ends
I know what it has cost me - I keep a spreadsheet.
I think it cost £23K to build originally
Cheers
Well Andy, can I congratulate you on doing the biz with your car. (That's me being serious for once, by the way.) You're right in that your hypothetical £35K would be better being put toward an LB or Hawk, but if you've not got £50K+ and you really want a Stratos, your options are very limited... The advantage to Ste's car is that it's actually running and driving, so it's not simply a pile of bits. Personally I'd not bother with the Busso motor and tweak the twink it's already got, but that's a decision for the buyer (or Ste if he ends up keeping it).
Advantage of your car is it's already registered, but against that it's still a rebuild in progress.
But are Strat reps really "vastly inflated" or are you referring to old classics in general? If you want a turnkey Hawk or LB with a Busso V6 you'll be looking at over £80K. As a kit, I dunno, about £40K or more for the full skipload of parts, but then you have to build it, paint it, trim it, source a donor, blah blah blah. Face it, a good kit ain't cheap, and if yours was £23K back in the day, that too was a good chunk of loot. My Integrale was £25K new back in 1992...the Allora I did cost me £12 or 13K by the time it was finished in '89. As a running, registered car you could ask £35K for it now if it was still in decent nick. And Littons, CAEs and Napiersports will be about the same, IF they're in good condition and properly finished and presented.
So - ARE you selling yours too, or just toying with the idea from your jail cell after using an A40 starting handle to beat the cr*p out of the thickos who can't string a sentence together? :)
The Litton Corse S ( like Steves) can make a nice car with diligent effort, and some expense of course.
I know the ballpark figure thst this car sold for some years ago. And I know very well what it cost to do and how long it took.
There's a profit to be made in Steve's car even at £20k.
I agree with what John is saying above, (but he knows better than me).Quote:
Originally Posted by john
'Just in case anyone missed John's point. The Alitalia car in his photo is identical to the Stratos kit that is/was for sale at the start of this thread (Litton Corse S, - 'S' for strut rear suspension).
On a Corse 'S' It's easier to fit the deep dish coffin spoke wheels (in this case LB coffin spokes) on the rear.
One example of how an obsolete kit can still benefit from existing kit parts. A 'development', if you like?
Thanks Chris.
Yes, exactly, there were a few nice parts from Craig on the car.
Grp 4 arches, wheels, roof spoiler, grp 4 dash, gear linkage etc. but it was the same as the Litton offered above when bought.
Not sure the car is the Biz - but it is my path.Quote:
Originally Posted by Normb666
Am I selling mine? - No not trying to - "Everything I have is up for sale at the right price" which is an honest comment as I do not have any particular emotional attachment to vehicles. That is not to say that would let them go easily/cheaply it's a case of how desperate someone would be to own it.
My view on the recent Hawk and Litton project cars for sale differs wildly from the bidders as I just see something that I would need to rip to bits, throw away 50% and then start from ground up. I can only assume they see IVA in a couple of weekends a £2K respray the next and cruising in a Stradale for the summer.
I should just get on with building it and not worry about what other people are paying for unfinished kits. So you will have to excuse me, I am off into the garage to work on my Gemini......
Hi John,
Was it a 4 pot cradle rear in the Corse S you built or does the V6 drop in there / no difference in the rear cradle as it sounds like I am wrongly assuming that the rear cradle needs loads of work to get a Busso in there.
So tell us what cars you may have for sale, so that we can have a think?
Andrew,
The 12 valve Busso will go in the four pot cradle with minor mods. I remember that Dave Watson managed to drop a 24v in, but had to alter the rear frame of the cradle rearward slightly.
For the 12v it was engine mounts ( obviously), and re-position bracing in the rear frame to accommodate the rear bank headers.
Someone had ( badly) repositioned the diagonal tube which comes up from the side pontoon to the top strut mount, but I got it back more or less where it should have been during a general tidy up of chassis.
Sorry, long winded reply as usual.
The answer is yes, more or less!
"I" chassis is of course very different and was specific to the engine being installed. Your Honda engine chassis being better than the Alfa variety in my opinion.
Steve Ellis adapted his Honda engined chassis to accept the MG/Rover V6, but an Alfa would have been unviable.