Re: Pirelli Hawk for Sale
I expect you've all been waiting for me to weigh in on this latest side-discussion regarding Strat rep prices! In fact I was actually going to leave it, having said it all previously - but on reflection, it may be worth reiterating a few things.
1) There still seems to be a mode of thought amongst some people that these Strat reps are "only kit cars" and should therefore be (fairly) cheap. Well, those days are long gone. The genuine Stratoses found their true place in the world of classics as desirable exotics some years ago, and good high-quality replicas have also climbed in price as they too have become appreciated for what they actually are. They have to be "good", though, to fetch the big numbers.
2) A new turnkey car from Hawk or LB can't be cheap. Consider the work involved in constructing one, and the cost of the components, the trimming, the painting, the labour. Remember that the car is entirely hand-built without robots and without an assembly line, plus the fact it's bespoke. The whole journey from initial contact with the manufacturer, to speccing the car and examining it at various points during its build, to collection of the finished vehicle, is already better than what the high-end exotic marques are attempting to do. If you order a Ferrari or Lambo, you'll do it at a dealer. You'll never get to meet the guy who designed it or the people who're building it, and establish a proper relationship with them. That's priceless!
3) Comparing a new turnkey Strat rep to a Cayman/Boxster GTS or Ferrari 308...well, sure, it's horses for courses, but in a lot of ways, for me the LB is a superior car. Consider just the door hinge, which uses laser-cut parts and spherical joints. Not only is it functional, it's lovely to look at. And that goes for just about every component on it - it's almost Pagani or Bugatti-like in that respect. Don't misunderstand, the Porsche is a fantastic car and great value for money (I've had my 987 Boxster Spyder 10 years now and can't see me ever selling it), but it's still mass-produced and when you start getting under the skin you can see where the corners have been cut. Your new Strat rep might not be as practical or be as "developed" in many ways, but it's automotive jewellery!
4) It's unlikely your Strat rep will depreciate for some time yet, given the waiting lists etc. Can't say that about a Cayman GTS!
5) £90-odd thousand for a new car such as this is peanuts in comparison with other manufacturers. In fact I don't understand how they can do it that cheaply! And remember that a turnkey car is no longer a kit car, so why shouldn't it be a pricey thing?
The car for sale here (the 12-valve Alfa-engined Hawk....remember that?? :) ) is, I'm told by a previous owner, quite a good car, but it's 20-odd years old now, has a 12v motor and no way can it be compared to a new one with the latest improvements, etc. The vendor asking what a new LB costs, and then upping his price to beyond that, is laughable and shows he doesn't understand the first thing about our cars. You'd think he'd have asked the actual manufacturer of the car he's trying to sell, wouldn't ya?? I'm sure there'll be even more to be said about all this yet...
Re: Pirelli Hawk for Sale
Stratos replicas have come a long way in the last 10 years, from the earlier days of " a spanner with a hammer in a shed in Nuneaton" to what are now low-volume manufacturers cars, some of which are home-assembled. The change in sourcing of parts and materials has contributed to the huge increase in quality and costs of builds. No comparison between my self-build and say Renmure Jim's brand new car. Other than the external looks. Each worth the cost of time and parts to manufacture the vehicle. Old replicas just aren't the same as current products.
What else might contribute to the value/sale price of a car? Detailed replication of a period Lancia (You'd need a proper style steel chassis for that)? Presence of MSA logbook (here's hoping). Celebrity autograph (hasn't someone's been autographed by Stig Blomqvist)? What else?
Re: Pirelli Hawk for Sale
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Stimbow
At the end of the day, we would all like to own an original! And I’ll put my neck out and say 90% of people on this forum would want one.
There was a time... :confused:
Re: Pirelli Hawk for Sale
Provenance can have a big effect on the price of just about anything. Therefore I'm confident that, as soon as the ink's dry on my car's V5 with my name on it, its value will drop approx 40% :)
Re: Pirelli Hawk for Sale
It's a goldilox product and it's a seller's market and there's unlikely to be too many similar cars around at any time.
I imagine in the future the spec of a turnkey LB STR will probably have a lot in common with my car or Norms car plus or minus a couple of options .. such as blue wheels or chavy decals .. so the 2nd hand values will have a more direct relationship with the costs the company initially charge for the product. Simple economics should dictate that cost will increase quite a bit so that supply and demand are more aligned.
Anyhow, who cares. The values only matter when you come to selling it or insuring it. Vroom vroom
Re: Pirelli Hawk for Sale
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ProtoTipo
There was a time... :confused:
Oddly there was never a time that I did want one - original or replica - I always wanted one of these.
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/wp-cont...r-1024x768.jpg
Re: Pirelli Hawk for Sale
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Normb666
I expect you've all been waiting for me to weigh in on this latest side-discussion regarding Strat rep prices! In fact I was actually going to leave it, having said it all previously - but on reflection, it may be worth reiterating a few things..
Well said Norman. Some others on here just want one as a homage to what they represent and how they came about, and where they came from in the thinking of the day. A car that was designed for a specific purpose and archived it in spades. A car that was light years ahead of its modified road going contemporaries in styling and automotive engineering design. It’s physical appearance attracted admiration as much as its performance and created the mystique that we see today.
I was co-driving/navigating in International rallies just prior to the impact of the aptly named Stratos, and have every admiration for the achievements of the Munari’s et al on the roads and forest stages that were being competed on in the day.
To drive a Stratos at competition winning speeds on a ‘corrugated’ surface needed superhumans, (both driver & co-driver).
It was the charisma that the car created and the memories I have at my contact with them being involved with the organisation of the Rallies in this country in which they competed, that made me want, and now have the next best thing. Value has nothing to do with it.
Robin.
Re: Pirelli Hawk for Sale
Interestingly, the car that's the subject of this "discussion" hasn't reappeared on Ebay, but is now on Car & Classic as a private sale in Preston at £82500. Ad wording is still pretty much the same, and the photos are as before, so has the car been sold for its last known price of approx £60K and is now being flipped, or is it a ploy where Jason the Car Dealer has got a pal to sell it for him? Still waaaay too expensive and, in fact, it was overpriced at £60K.... the saga continues!!
Re: Pirelli Hawk for Sale
Robin, I agree - the Old Gits on here will remember the impact it had on us back in the day, seeing and hearing a competition Stratos in its element being hammered around a rally stage or being driven "spiritedly" on road sections... I remember my first sight of the Munari car on the 1974 RAC Rally in North Wales at the Clocaenog stages. Although I'd seen magazine articles and photos of the car and was amazed at how it looked, seeing one for real was something of a mind-melt. I couldn't understand how something so small could hold two people and an engine (yes I know it's the same length as a Lotus Elan, but you know what I mean), and nor could I understand why it wasn't self-destructing at the abuse it was getting. Exotic cars simply weren't supposed to do things like that!! That excitement at seeing one has never left me to this day. Yes I know that modern replicas aren't the real thing; I know they're not Ferrari-powered, blah blah blah. But for me, I think they're actually better than a genuine one. All the looks but modern running gear and brakes? More performance, and less likelihood of a clumsy oaf like me gong off the road? I'll have some of that ta! - and at under half the price of a Huracan or F8 Tributo, I reckon I'm well in front of the game!
It's things like this that give you a reason to live, to make you smile, and keep you acting like a 10-year-old....:cool:
Re: Pirelli Hawk for Sale
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Darkspeed
Very tasty car - my fave of the Corvettes. Would yours have to be the split window one? Biiig money.....!
You'll have to satisfy my curiosity, though. If you've never wanted any sort of Stratos, why are you on here? That's not meant to sound antagonistic or that we want you gone, it's just a simple question, because this is a place for Stratos enthusiasts, and you've just pretty much said you're not one! :)
