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Oh yeah, Robin, that'd bring the price down another £20K at least ;) Mind you, he's not learned anything from the experience - he's got a green one now....
As for the one mentioned by Frederic earlier - is the seller having a laugh?? It's plainly a kit replica, no way can it be a 1972 car (forgetting that the real thing didn't appear till 1973...), and it's running a 2.5 Alfa motor. 245000 euros. I can't understand why it's not sold (that's sarcasm, by the way)
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/...-vsFb9m4eMc0IY
Made it onto Car and Classics now.
Terrible write up!
Sorry I've taken so long to reply to this... since seeing it, I've been in shock :p Blimey, and to think I'd done well when I sold it 7 or 8 years ago for a third of the current asking price!
The description on the advert is a badly-butchered version of the advert I wrote back when I sold it, a lot of the information is therefore now incorrect. He mentions it having the Ferrari gear gate - this isn't the case now as I'm pretty sure it's been fitted with a LB cable change. The gearchange arrangement that was fitted to the car when I had it was very much a compromise and never really worked as well as I wanted it to - it let the car down somewhat... the gear gate looked great, mind!
The car was really nicely screwed together which is what appealed to me at the time. Regarding registration, IIRC the car had been inspected by the DVLA and/or the police in the 1990s at some point, and there was some supporting documentation stating exactly what the car was and that they were happy with the way it was registered, and it was allowed to retain its original reg. From an overseas sale point of view, this is probably the best case scenario for being able to get it registered more easily - and buyers will pay over the odds for that!
The way things are on the classic/kit car market at the moment, I think someone will pay somewhere in between the original advertised price and the sale price - although having said that, viewing the car in the current climate, particularly for overseas buyers, will be tricky!
A pic from when I had the car, taking part in the Monte Classique:
Attachment 17751
That's interesting. I wondered what all that "250GTO gearchange" blarney was all about, so now it's obvious the seller doesn't have a clue and he's just bunged a price on i and is hoping for the best. The registration says it all..."YBL - You'll Be Lucky" :) :)
Worth every penny.Quote:
Originally Posted by Normb666
I've seen the ad for the £150k LB so the market is moving ever upwards.
Worth every penny of £55K, sure! ;)
It's got a gearlever that's obviously out of something else, a set of rusty GAZ shocks, and a 12V Alfa motor. Now if it had a set of Nitrons or similar, a properly-modified lever that looked like it belonged there, and a 24V motor, then yeah, maybe the original asking price of £69K. And if it had its "original" Dino motor, a lot more....but as it stands, it doesn't matter how well built it is, that was 20-odd years ago and it doesn't appear to have been cared for since Richard had it.
You never know, someone might just come along and pay over £100K for it. But I can't see that person being one who knows anything about Strat reps.
Haven't seen the £150K LB, where's that? Got a link? Assume it's the 24-ct gold-plated one that Craig did for the Sultan of Brunei when he was a bit hard up, and couldn't quite stretch to an original motor? :)
I think the value of these cars is in the ability to register them in the EU still persists. Once that door shuts the prices will drop I'm sure. This car also has value in that it can be converted to LHD relatively easily compared to later Hawks. It's age may also make it easier to export to the USA? As with anything, it's what any potential buyer is willing to pay and how many are available at any point in time. Wait and see I think but I guess the seller got so much interest at the original price that they've decided to see how much they can get for it.
Guy
I agree with everything just said, and if someone thinks it's worth that, then they'll buy it. But I'm looking at it from the point of view of us cynical SEC bums, who also happen to know he was originally asking £69K ;)
£69,950 Norm.... Makes all the difference!
Sorry, was pre-applying the club discount.... ;)
Club discount now properly applied.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LANCIA-ST...EAAOSw7GpgIqhE
Guy
I'm sure there's a little more wiggle room in there yet. Maybe showing him the original asking price might help in that regard? ;)
Wiggle Wiggle
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LANCIA-ST...MAAOSwlYtgSf23
Soon it'll be under the initial listing price....
According to the advert, it was sold on Monday but the buyer couldn't raise the funds. So if it's so "in demand", why drop the price again?
Guy, you could be right - it'll soon be back down where it started....!
Also he must have a fair bit of money invested in the car... lowering the price as he has been doing smacks of the realisation its not worth what he advertised it for OR... he is desperate for the cash !...
If he was originally happy with £69K, then (finger in the air here) I assume he paid about £50-55K? That's enough if it's his own money, but if it's borrowed money like a lot of small dealers use, he'll have to service that debt. Multiply that by however many cars he's got in stock and it soon adds up!
Might also be a case of bad timing. If, as someone said in another thread, EU countries are now adding VAT at 20% plus import duties, it could be killing any cars coming from Britain (for now, anyway). That money on top of purchase price, plus shipping, plus LHD conversion, plus registration....bloody L, buy a local 911 GT3 or a Yaris GR instead!
Another price drop... Getting much closer to the original listing!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LANCIA-ST...MAAOSwlYtgSf23
Guy
I see it's now described as a 99.9% replica.
So a steel monocoque and Dino engine and transmission clearly only adds 0.1% value......
That's always the 0.1% you can't afford :)
I love the way it's "not the usual put together amateur kit" (dunno what's wrong with saying "amateur assembled", or even "enthusiast built", but never mind). Well if it's not one of those, and then looking at the standard of builds on here, it must be bloody awful! Still, facetiousness aside, I'm fascinated to see how low the asking price will get. It'd probably be a really nice car for someone, if advertised correctly and at a reasonable price.
Yes Norm, given that he thinks that the 'norm' ( no pun intended) is amateurish, then he clearly has not done the research he claims he has. Its actually insulting.
I can understand he wants to make out it's well built - in fact Richard has already told me it was - but it's the expression "...the usual..." that annoys me. He's either an ignorant arrogant git, or he's not thought through what he's saying. Or maybe even both.
I don't know who "Stratos Guru Graham Bates" is - assume he's not a SEC member or he'd have interjected by now, surely?
" This is a well built car, clearly constructed by someone who knows what they are doing."
There, that should cover it. Don't see the need to cast aspersions at anybody elses efforts.
Unless of course the whole of his research involved watching an old episode of Top Gear......
Norm,Quote:
Originally Posted by Normb666
Graham Bates (or 'Grumpy' as he's oft referred to) was quite the legend in the Stratos Replica Club.
He designed and made a lot of bespoke parts for the Transformer kit and the 'Saturday Club' revolved around him.
The immaculate ex Terry Bunn Hawk HF I first owned, had quite a few parts that Graham made, including panel catches, alloy boot lid etc.
If you look back at earlier club newsletters, his influence is fairly obvious. This is the period when Denys Jones' Pirelli car was built.
It's highly unlikely that Graham would contribute to any on-line forum. I doubt he'd care.
He's either an ignorant arrogant git, .... You have got it completely wrong Norm !!!....... you forgot the word GREEDY !
I am looking for a 2006 or earlier car preferably with LHD to import to Canada. There are few for sale it seems but I have looked at this Hawk and have read all of the banter concerning it. Am I correct in staying away from this particular example no matter what the asking price or does it become attractive at a certain price point? For me the drivetrain is the least of my worries: it is getting it registered here that I am leery about. Any and all advice appreciated.
I'm not sure this car fits your bill.
Before it gets exported it really needs the engine number and capacity updating on the documents. That my be something the vendor is willing to do for you as a condition of the sale. I don't know how thoroughly your inspectors look at stuff like that, they may not notice a capacity error but an engine number is a little more obvious if they can find it. Is there a local inspection/department that you can talk to?
This car has been known to the Club since it was first built so we can say with certainty that it's more than 15 years old.
If you do decide that this car is for you it is possible to convert it to LHD but it's a compromise as the footwells are wider on the drivers side as built and moving the spine of the car isn't really practical. Everything else can be done on this chassis. Later Hawks are harder to successfully convert to LHD.
As you note, there are very few for sale. Sometimes you just need to buy what's available!
Hi James, welcome to the club, and good luck in your search!
You're right, there are very few cars for sale at any one time, and that's due to several factors including the general world of classic car types who these days take replicas far more seriously than they once did - for one thing, they're cheaper than originals, and for another, they can actually be better! So they don't hang about very long, although the Brexit situation has thrown a temporary spanner in the works. That's all reflected in current values, but you still have to be wary of what you're buying....and don't believe talk of £170K if it was LHD. If that was true, why wouldn't you have the work done??? And would you pay that much?? ....no, thought not :)
Still, the asking price of this one is now back down to what it was originally, i.e, just under £70K. I've been assured by a previous owner that it was, at the time of his ownership, a really good car, but that was some time ago! You also have to take into account that this is fitted with a 12-valve motor rather than a 24-valve. That makes a difference to some. And heed well Guy's words of wisdom above - he knows his onions when it comes to Hawks!
As one of those who've bantered about this one, I think that at the current price, and with "offers invited", you could well be able to strike a deal. You obviously have to factor in the cost of a LHD conversion if it's a deal-breaker to stay RHD, so it could end up being very pricey - have you contacted anyone regarding doing the work?
Your other alternative, if it HAS to be pre-2006, is to simply hang on till another car comes to market. You won't find an LB in that case. as they only came into being in 2010. However, LBs can be converted between LHD and RHD fairly easily - the floorpan's the same either side and all chassis already have the mountings and brackets for both configs.
As always, it's your decision, although I think it's vastly complicated by you being about 6000 miles away! But as I said, Good Luck!
I saw the car at the Lancia Motor Club AGM , I think 2019. The then new owner said how well it drove and he was used to some exotic machinery.
He let me have a good poke around and it seemed really well put together, it just seems a shame the current vendor was asking too much to begin with and now I would say it was at a sensible price. Lovely car and was in great shape summer 2019.
Thanks for all of your feedback! Yes it is a little difficult being several thousand miles away when looking for a vehicle. Normally you jump on a plane and go wherever but not these days. Maybe by next fall things will open up again.
I saw an original Stratos back in 1977 while visiting France and now that I am retired was hoping to find my dream car as it were. I owned a '79 X1/9 a few years ago and thoroughly enjoyed driving it but it needed more power. I believe Hawk has delivered over 600 of their version so maybe one will come up sometime. Having not seen any of these various replicas, how does the quality compare between them? I have watched many of the Youtube videos on the LB's and the Hawk's but this is not nearly as informative as a hands-on visit to see the real thing. There is a local shop that builds race trucks for the Baja 1000 so I am not too concerned with converting it to LHD but I have size 11 shoes so the foot wheel space may be an issue. We are not allowed to import kitcars into Canada unless they are more than 15 years old which also limits the pool of eligible cars. And of course it must have been legally registered so having the correct engine number is essential.
Get it bought, drink it while it is fizzy!
If there is one thing the last year or so has taught us, it is time to crack on!!!
I agree with Tim here in regards to life being too short for regrets, which is a principle I've adhered to since I was about....er....15 ;) Shame about that 15-year rule (does a "kitcar" somehow become safer with age??), but when the authorities refer to "kitcars" do they mean "one that was amateur built at home" or does that also include a factory-built example? For example, you couldn't import, say, a recent Caterham Seven that had been built in someone's garage, but one assembled professionally at the factory would be OK?
If that's the case, your options could be greater as not everyone assembles their own cars these days, and would include LBs (or ListerBells as they were known till a couple of years ago). Quality of the kits is excellent but a lot depends on the skills of the builder - and for older cars, that might not mean as much these days as they could have been rebuilt to a greater or lesser degree. Have a look at the build threads on here to give you an idea of what's involved and what you need to look at. You're right though, you can't beat seeing something in person. Maybe soon you'll be able to jump on that plane...maybe even commission your own build as new??
New price today, 6k up:
Pirelli Hawk
This is hilarious. Over 30 years in the classic car trade and I have never seen an advertised cars price change like this.
I think the price must be directly linked to the stock market or the wind........Mystic Meg maybe:confused:
Hallucinations spring to mind, perhaps its something to do with 'Coke' and not the type that comes in a tin.
This is more like watching share prices than the price of a second hand car - up and down all over the place!
You couldn't make it up could you?
He must get a couple of enquiries and hike the price on the strength.
I think he needs to amend the ad so it doesn't say "....won't be around long"
The price is jumping about so much it's like a video game - you have to get the timing just right on the "Buy It" button to catch it at the bottom price, otherwise you'll be thousands down!
Depend on what kind of Lancia its registered, in the Netherlands anyway. If the V5 Make and type says Lancia Beta it wont pass in the Netherlands, because its not a Lancia Beta. So Make is lancia but what type is it registered at?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratie.fr
I've lost track on this one now is it back down again £69950.00 it had went up 6k on the 14th
Yes Kenny, 'back to where we started!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny m