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Sounds like the perfect settings for a drift car.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancialulu
The proof will be in the driving but be very careful, I've worked on a number of high performance mid engine cars & your settings contradict what those companies used.
295 section TB15's are the tyre I'd fit to the back of the 15" wheeled GP4 Strato's replica, the stickiness of the tyre I think is irrelevant to the twitchyness.
Craig, how's about asking Mr Comas what his tarmac settings are?
Craig
its the sticky 235 TB15's on the front that make it twitchy not the rears... Can you recommend a standard compund 15 gp4 tyre front and back. Noted I trye to drive carefully. It is early days but I am persauded to live with this until alternative tyres can be found at which point I will set the front differently.
Tim
Michelin TB15 215/55/15's have a nice big compliant side wall which shouldn't cause any issues. At the temperatures you are running on the road then I doubt the tyres can really be classed as sticky. Guy runs a wider squarer front tyre which should yield more issues than yours.
Have you actually taken the time to remove the damper & check the bump steer? You have mentioned a number of times that you have altered the front castor. Are you aware that each time you alter the castor you should then double check the bump steer as castor adjustment alters the relationship between the steering arm & the steering rack which in turn provokes bump steer. About 4 pages ago we covered the subject of twitchyness & the subject of bump steer was raised. If you are now happy with your ride height, toe settings & tyre pressures then can I suggest you actually check the bump steer before buying new tyres to replace the ones that plenty of others here run with out issue.
I'm sure Mr Comas has better things to worry about than me calling him up to ask what his suspension settings are!!Quote:
Originally Posted by strat24v
As we have covered earlier in the thread a car which is set up for competition or drifting will often have more aggressive settings such as toe out which help to promote turn in (track car/rally car/drift car) &/or instability (rally car/drift car) in the interests of ultimate times or visual flamboyance. A road based Strato's replica should be set up for performance & handling but with a concession for compliance & safety, ie stability under braking & predictability when cornering.
BR
Can I just chip in on this one,
What Craig is saying on castor is what I have found during my rebuild.
When the front suspension was put back together without springs, it gave me an chance to check the bump steer through the full stroke of the damper, I checked the bump steer and as you start putting on more caster the toe in to toe out change was huge.
At the moment I have reduced the caster and raised the rack on shims.
Paul
CraigQuote:
Originally Posted by Strat Fan
The old hands at GBH Motorsport (and incidentally Longstone) classed these tb15s as sticky and Bob at GBH road tested the car and said the twitchiness was down to the profile and compound of the front tyre which I beleive is correct. For avoidance of doubt the twitchiness is felt on a notmally smooth tarmac no bumps. I have driven the car puposefully over uneven road surfaces and apart from tram lining there is no apparrant bump steer. I still wish I could find normal compound tyres to fit.....
Tim
Ps in case you were wwondering GBH stands for Geoff Bob and Herindoors....
Can I have your TB's?
I have run TB15's and TB5's in competition (front 205-215/40x15 and rear 295-335/35x15) and can say that there is NO "twitchiness" whatsoever.......... TB 15's are great in the wet giving excellent grip.... however during a dry 20minute race the tread did rip off in lumps (this was my mistake only having a set of wets available to me at the time)
For short dry stages they were great, giving good grip off the line and not getting too hot and ripping tread off during a 8 mile tarmac stage..... IMHO great tyres
Attachment 9446
Attachment 9447
PS.... the tyre pressure were nothing like as high as some earlier figures
I like this one
.....but I like this one better.....
IL add to this and say what others are thinking, your set up company hasn't got a clue what they are doing. Just because someone has got some laser alignment kit doesn't automatically mean they know how to use it.
The old guard here know what they are talking about, they have all found what works, over hundreds of thousands of miles between them, which when you check, is very similar to what was run back in the day. I'd suggest your issues are down to the standard of build and lack of knowledge rather than everyone else being wrong.
As a general observation I don't believe the Stratos actually works the front tyres hard enough to get enough heat into them to make "sticky" tyres work unless some very specific work is done to make it happen.
Let me rephrase. The car is really a delight to drive turns in well powers out of corners with no drama even in bumping conditions. The twitchiness I am refering to is the almost lack of self centering. I am not going to dipute others experiences but I dont like the tone of this conversation so this will be my last post on this matter. And no the TBs are not going anywhere.....
I'd say you have issues with steering stiction.
The 215 x 15 Michelin TB15 is the cream of the crop for the front end of a Stratos rep.
The new P7 Corsa might be on a par, but I doubt it's any better.
A Hawk needs to have the correct offset on the front wheels.
That, and any 'give' in the front tie bar (tension strut) bushes can make a Hawk dart about on the road.
So much so that it will be an awful thing to drive.
Yes, maybe, but only if you cannot live without 15" wheels. There is a trade off between appearance and practical handling.Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoTipo
That's why I hate Ferrari Dinos or 308s fitted with 16" rims and lower profile tyres.Quote:
Originally Posted by john
It makes (handling) sense to ditch the 70 series rubber, but if you wanted something more modern?....
This, for example, will be an arrestable offence when I come to power::rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by john
http://media.turbosport.co.uk/2006/6...3308322754.gif
Reducing Caster will reduce self centering action further - Irun 5.5 positive on all my cars.
Bump steer has little to actually do with going over bumps. - The sensation is a lack of front end stability when the suspension is compressing with undulations as the suspension is loading and unloading in normal driving conditions. (apologies if teaching granny)
Everything done to your car by the "experts" you took it to for setting up is contrary to the established norms and experience of setting up any mid engine car, or any car for that matter not just a Stratos. The settings you have advised us of are a concern to anyone who has driven a mid engine quickly.
I would be very concerned about the lack of rear toe if corning in the wet especially coupled with the front toe out and what sounds like uncorrected bump steer.
Everything is comparative and a TB15 could well be termed "sticky" when stood against a Yokohama A539 - but compared to an Avon ZZR soft they would not be.
The "Tone" you refer to (looks like a bit of lightheartedness to me but maybe I am a bit more thick skinned) is because you are apparently choosing ignore a great deal of experience and people are genuinely concerned for yours and others safety driving with those settings. I certainly would not fancy my chances of making it round a bend if going quickly and finding water on the surface half way round - then again what's quick to one is downright dangerous to another and you may not drive the car in a manner that the settings you have would be an issue.
Many things to check and consider. Are the front uprights fiat 132 or another similar fiat? Are both uprights straight or is one out of true?good idea to check kpi? No mention of front and rear ride heights.
Plus one for me Tim, we're not having a go at you for taking your car where you did, just concerned that the set up they have given you appears contrary to what everyone else has arrived at through years of experience. If it works for you we'll all be happy for you but please be careful learning the limits of a car you've recently acquired.
Keep in touch!
Guy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkspeed
I'm guessing Tim, that you probably have'nt got much of a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancialulu
A drive in another Hawk, might throw some light on this?
Chris Guy all
Not going into my shell and I respect all the advice given but this matter is in abeyance until more air time achieved. Was potentially looking to take it to Goodwood for the club track day on Saturday, but a) as I share this driving treat with the other half it is not fair as she has not driven it yet. Been a passenger and loved it though; and b) the travel down day tomorrow looks a bit pants weather wise (and I havent padded lined or water proofed the boot..... So it will be the toe out Fulvia HF1600 instead.
The suggestion to drive another Hawk is a good one and yes the uprights are 132 modified by Gerry, and I did check the KPI which was 9deg each side.
Ride height was using the tub corners NSF/OSF 160mm NSR/OSF 169mm.
Little time recently but I knocked back the toe out to 1mm toe in and test drive found it a great improvement. I have a copy of a Gp 4 dry tarmac set up from reparte Corsa Lancia which gives 2mm.
going to LMC AGM weekend on Sunday so that will give it a good run.
Hi Tim,
Don't forget we have the sprint track at Curborough on the 25th August where you could try your car over a set track.
Just a thought.
Ian
Ian, you are on the money! Car ran well today and we covered 250 high speed miles and some very slow on the M11 due to stationary traffic. Tomorrow I will register for Curborough! Is it all day??Quote:
Originally Posted by The Slug
Our car won the Strato's concours at the Lancia Motor Club AGM today which wasnt difficult as it was the only one there. It did look smart though...
A year on from Shades first MOT with me and another clean pass. Embarrassed to say only did 1000 miles in last 12 months (too many other Lancia events for my other cars....).
My tester found a minimal amount of play in the bottom o/s rear "trunnion" that links the bottom of the hub to the lateral suspension strut. I will obviously look at this but does anyone have recommendation for a replacement bush(s).
BTW Its not my garage:cool:
Hi Tim
That's a fine MOT passed for Shades!!
Nice picture in front of old Heath Garage!
Hope to see you with Shades next year!!
Cheers
Frederic
Good step done for lot next year out drives !! Well done
Me too hope to meet you next year ..... Stoneilelight ??????
would be nice to put a face to a name. Stoneliegh is a possibility. I now need to finalise the suspension setup. Am getting there but have found the car has too soft rear springs (Leda struts but fitted with 200lb springs when the car had a Beta Volumex engine - now has Alfa12v), and the front possibly too stiff. Not an expensive fix.Quote:
Originally Posted by LM mic
That would be great to meet all Fellows in Stoneleigh next year!
Hope I could be off to join SEC for this event!
Merry Christmas to all!!
Frederic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancialulu
Would you be able to find stiffers ones to suit shock absorbers ???
Just spoke with Roger at LEDA and agreed a 325 spring which I have just ordered from Faulkner ex stock. Will try that and play with damper adjuster first then see if I need to have the dampers reprofiled.Quote:
Originally Posted by LM mic
Merry Xmas all!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratie.fr
Does SEC have a special parking for Stratii at Raceretro Stoneleigh or is it another Stonleigh event??
The National Kit Car Show and SEC AGM at the beginning of May Tim.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancialulu
That's more the 'social' event at Stoneleigh.
There was a special park once at Race Retro, just outside the front door, but for one year only.
2011
'Didn't realise it was so long ago?
Stoneleigh this year 2016
Attachment 10656
Attachment 10657
Possibly quite firm for road use but it'll be nice for track days. That said others on here have fitted even heavier springs to prevent the rear wheels rubbing on the rear arches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancialulu