Pirelli Hawk for Sale

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Originally Posted by Willtord

Unfortunately I cant help feeling that it's had other repercussions, too. I was quoted £90k yesterday, for a factory built STR. I do love the shape of the Stratos, but 90K puts it firmly in competition with a Brand New Porsche Cayman/Boxster 4.0L GTS, or numerous second owner convertible Lamborghinis and Ferraris and their associated development, heritage, parts and servicing networks.

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The only correlation with the pricing of the eBay car and an LB is that the eBay seller contacted LB anonymously 4 months ago as a potential buyer to ask what the cost of a factory built car was, he then bumped his eBay listing price from £69,995 to £109,995.
There are no repercussions whatsoever to the cost of a turn key LB in light of the (fluctuating) advertised price eBay car.
The pricing for a turn key LB is quite simply based on the component cost, a build labour cost and then a profit margin which then makes it viable to keep a business with overheads going in this day and age.
If you compare the spec of a factory LB with car being offered on eBay currently then you would realise there is actually a significant difference in component/engine spec and therefore the component cost alone of the two cars is vastly different.
I fully agree that you can buy a lot of sports car for comparable money but that really is to miss the point. As one of the forum's old guard used to say "people buy a Stratos because they want something which looks like a Stratos".
You cannot buy that look in any other car and it therefore becomes what it is & the decision is one to be made by the customer at their own discretion.

Correct, if you want a Stratos then really only a Stratos will scratch that itch, nothing else is the 'same', similar yes in engine placement etc but not a Stratos, drove my mates McLaren 570 the other year then Gordon took me out in his LB... the McLaren was dull in every way by comparison.

Although my Hawk is not yet IVA'd , when I finish 'testing' it I simply don't want to get out or turn it off! Some OEM's can struggle to (pardon the pun) replicate this.:o

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Originally Posted by Strat Fan

I fully agree that you can buy a lot of sports car for comparable money but that really is to miss the point.

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As much as I like Stratos replicas, once they've got to the stage of being valued £10k above Ferrari 308s, I'm always going to choose a 308.
There is a limit.

As Craig said - it's a matter of personal choice. The fact that LB has a long waiting list speaks volumes. Now that I'm starting to "test" my car I'm beginning to get a feel for what makes these cars so special - apart from the heritage and aesthetics (as if that wasn't enough !)

Looking at eBay the listing for the Hawk has currently ended and the item is no longer available.

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Originally Posted by ProtoTipo

As much as I like Stratos replicas, once they've got to the stage of being valued £10k above Ferrari 308s, I'm always going to choose a 308.
There is a limit.

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I think that is exactly the point,
It is at the buyers discretion as to what amount of money they wish to spend on the car of their choosing.
Everyone will have a limit as to what they would want to spend to own such a car and that is their choice.
If a buyer does not think a car is worth what it is advertised/for sale at then quite simply they don't buy it.

A problem when comparing the purchase price of these other exotica with a Stratos rep is it ignores the inbuilt costs associated with owning them. Buying them is the cheap bit. I follow the McLaren Forums quite closely but have yet to find too many folk running one without the £3500 annual warranty and that's before servicing and insurance costs. Some of the better ones available at the moment still cost over £100k but have depreciated by the cost of a turnkey LB STR over the past couple of years and haven't reached the bottom. It makes the idea of owning a nice, appreciating, desirable, cheap to run kit car quite pleasant.

My personal experience of over 20 years of Ferrari ownership is the need to budget for an average of £2500 for servicing per year. My best mate bought a lovely, mint condition, 328 GTS about 3 years ago for less than a turnkey STR. For the past 8 months it has been with a specialist having unexpected engine work done at a cost that would buy you a new Honda Civic Type R.

I owned a 308 and did all the servicing myself.
I stripped down all four webers and rebuilt them. I also fitted new cam belts and tensioner bearings.
You can't run one on a budget, but it needn't cost a fortune.

Regarding current Stratos replica values:
They are now way out of my league, and for a long time, that didn't use to be the case.
If I hadn't been able to create possible ownership by stealth, I'd have gone from here some time ago.

I agree Chris, it is a shame values 'matter'... because really they don't.

I’m new to the stratos replica scene, but not the exotic race/rally scene.
I’ve also come on here looking for a stratos replica. It did also take me by surprise by the cost of the stratos replicas especially because I’ve done my research on other kit cars for sale, the standard classic Ferrari’s, Porsche, early esprits and anything with any historic rallying or race pedigree.
So, in my mind I already had a price and was somewhat anchored to it. I too was taken aback by the cost of the stratos replica cars in comparison to the above mentioned cars! And correct me if I’m wrong, they’re not eligible to actually enter a timed rally event?

Definitely a supply and demand of such cars with kit-cars not being frowned upon as they once were, restomods with any engine in any classic car being a new pastime, the new model stratos, the youtubers bringing the stratos to a new generation. All has given the stratos a bit of a revival! And the one’s who have one, won’t sell them, but funnily, if one comes up for sale they buy another!!!

So, my take on it is quite simple. You get your free quote and if you like it, then dig deep and splash the cash! If not, admire and take part as a club member and enjoy or put some finance plan together! At the end of the day, we would all like to own an original! And I’ll put my neck out and say 90% of people on this forum would want one. But a replica would just have to do?

Do I still want one?…Hell yea!
Which manufacturer? who cares! I’ve seen them both now and love them both, but I must admit, I now have a soft spot for a steel body replica, I’ve seen one getting built in a bunch of wooden sheds down somewhere in sunny England! More options to choose from, but how deep are my pockets??? Lol.

I expect you've all been waiting for me to weigh in on this latest side-discussion regarding Strat rep prices! In fact I was actually going to leave it, having said it all previously - but on reflection, it may be worth reiterating a few things.
1) There still seems to be a mode of thought amongst some people that these Strat reps are "only kit cars" and should therefore be (fairly) cheap. Well, those days are long gone. The genuine Stratoses found their true place in the world of classics as desirable exotics some years ago, and good high-quality replicas have also climbed in price as they too have become appreciated for what they actually are. They have to be "good", though, to fetch the big numbers.
2) A new turnkey car from Hawk or LB can't be cheap. Consider the work involved in constructing one, and the cost of the components, the trimming, the painting, the labour. Remember that the car is entirely hand-built without robots and without an assembly line, plus the fact it's bespoke. The whole journey from initial contact with the manufacturer, to speccing the car and examining it at various points during its build, to collection of the finished vehicle, is already better than what the high-end exotic marques are attempting to do. If you order a Ferrari or Lambo, you'll do it at a dealer. You'll never get to meet the guy who designed it or the people who're building it, and establish a proper relationship with them. That's priceless!
3) Comparing a new turnkey Strat rep to a Cayman/Boxster GTS or Ferrari 308...well, sure, it's horses for courses, but in a lot of ways, for me the LB is a superior car. Consider just the door hinge, which uses laser-cut parts and spherical joints. Not only is it functional, it's lovely to look at. And that goes for just about every component on it - it's almost Pagani or Bugatti-like in that respect. Don't misunderstand, the Porsche is a fantastic car and great value for money (I've had my 987 Boxster Spyder 10 years now and can't see me ever selling it), but it's still mass-produced and when you start getting under the skin you can see where the corners have been cut. Your new Strat rep might not be as practical or be as "developed" in many ways, but it's automotive jewellery!
4) It's unlikely your Strat rep will depreciate for some time yet, given the waiting lists etc. Can't say that about a Cayman GTS!
5) £90-odd thousand for a new car such as this is peanuts in comparison with other manufacturers. In fact I don't understand how they can do it that cheaply! And remember that a turnkey car is no longer a kit car, so why shouldn't it be a pricey thing?

The car for sale here (the 12-valve Alfa-engined Hawk....remember that?? :) ) is, I'm told by a previous owner, quite a good car, but it's 20-odd years old now, has a 12v motor and no way can it be compared to a new one with the latest improvements, etc. The vendor asking what a new LB costs, and then upping his price to beyond that, is laughable and shows he doesn't understand the first thing about our cars. You'd think he'd have asked the actual manufacturer of the car he's trying to sell, wouldn't ya?? I'm sure there'll be even more to be said about all this yet...

Stratos replicas have come a long way in the last 10 years, from the earlier days of " a spanner with a hammer in a shed in Nuneaton" to what are now low-volume manufacturers cars, some of which are home-assembled. The change in sourcing of parts and materials has contributed to the huge increase in quality and costs of builds. No comparison between my self-build and say Renmure Jim's brand new car. Other than the external looks. Each worth the cost of time and parts to manufacture the vehicle. Old replicas just aren't the same as current products.
What else might contribute to the value/sale price of a car? Detailed replication of a period Lancia (You'd need a proper style steel chassis for that)? Presence of MSA logbook (here's hoping). Celebrity autograph (hasn't someone's been autographed by Stig Blomqvist)? What else?

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Originally Posted by Stimbow

At the end of the day, we would all like to own an original! And I’ll put my neck out and say 90% of people on this forum would want one.

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There was a time... :confused:

Provenance can have a big effect on the price of just about anything. Therefore I'm confident that, as soon as the ink's dry on my car's V5 with my name on it, its value will drop approx 40% :)

It's a goldilox product and it's a seller's market and there's unlikely to be too many similar cars around at any time.

I imagine in the future the spec of a turnkey LB STR will probably have a lot in common with my car or Norms car plus or minus a couple of options .. such as blue wheels or chavy decals .. so the 2nd hand values will have a more direct relationship with the costs the company initially charge for the product. Simple economics should dictate that cost will increase quite a bit so that supply and demand are more aligned.

Anyhow, who cares. The values only matter when you come to selling it or insuring it. Vroom vroom

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Originally Posted by ProtoTipo

There was a time... :confused:

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Oddly there was never a time that I did want one - original or replica - I always wanted one of these.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/wp-cont...r-1024x768.jpg

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Originally Posted by Normb666

I expect you've all been waiting for me to weigh in on this latest side-discussion regarding Strat rep prices! In fact I was actually going to leave it, having said it all previously - but on reflection, it may be worth reiterating a few things..

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Well said Norman. Some others on here just want one as a homage to what they represent and how they came about, and where they came from in the thinking of the day. A car that was designed for a specific purpose and archived it in spades. A car that was light years ahead of its modified road going contemporaries in styling and automotive engineering design. It’s physical appearance attracted admiration as much as its performance and created the mystique that we see today.

I was co-driving/navigating in International rallies just prior to the impact of the aptly named Stratos, and have every admiration for the achievements of the Munari’s et al on the roads and forest stages that were being competed on in the day.

To drive a Stratos at competition winning speeds on a ‘corrugated’ surface needed superhumans, (both driver & co-driver).

It was the charisma that the car created and the memories I have at my contact with them being involved with the organisation of the Rallies in this country in which they competed, that made me want, and now have the next best thing. Value has nothing to do with it.

Robin.

Interestingly, the car that's the subject of this "discussion" hasn't reappeared on Ebay, but is now on Car & Classic as a private sale in Preston at £82500. Ad wording is still pretty much the same, and the photos are as before, so has the car been sold for its last known price of approx £60K and is now being flipped, or is it a ploy where Jason the Car Dealer has got a pal to sell it for him? Still waaaay too expensive and, in fact, it was overpriced at £60K.... the saga continues!!

Robin, I agree - the Old Gits on here will remember the impact it had on us back in the day, seeing and hearing a competition Stratos in its element being hammered around a rally stage or being driven "spiritedly" on road sections... I remember my first sight of the Munari car on the 1974 RAC Rally in North Wales at the Clocaenog stages. Although I'd seen magazine articles and photos of the car and was amazed at how it looked, seeing one for real was something of a mind-melt. I couldn't understand how something so small could hold two people and an engine (yes I know it's the same length as a Lotus Elan, but you know what I mean), and nor could I understand why it wasn't self-destructing at the abuse it was getting. Exotic cars simply weren't supposed to do things like that!! That excitement at seeing one has never left me to this day. Yes I know that modern replicas aren't the real thing; I know they're not Ferrari-powered, blah blah blah. But for me, I think they're actually better than a genuine one. All the looks but modern running gear and brakes? More performance, and less likelihood of a clumsy oaf like me gong off the road? I'll have some of that ta! - and at under half the price of a Huracan or F8 Tributo, I reckon I'm well in front of the game!

It's things like this that give you a reason to live, to make you smile, and keep you acting like a 10-year-old....:cool:

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Originally Posted by Darkspeed

Oddly there was never a time that I did want one - original or replica - I always wanted one of these.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/wp-cont...r-1024x768.jpg

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Very tasty car - my fave of the Corvettes. Would yours have to be the split window one? Biiig money.....!

You'll have to satisfy my curiosity, though. If you've never wanted any sort of Stratos, why are you on here? That's not meant to sound antagonistic or that we want you gone, it's just a simple question, because this is a place for Stratos enthusiasts, and you've just pretty much said you're not one! :)

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Originally Posted by Normb666

You'll have to satisfy my curiosity, though. If you've never wanted any sort of Stratos, why are you one here? That's not meant to sound antagonistic or that we want you gone, it's just a simple question, because this is a place for Stratos enthusiasts, and you've just pretty much said you're not one! :)

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Thank you Norman! i was wondering how to word the question! Only ever drive a Corvette twice. First and last time, thought it was awful. But if I had to choose one it'd be the split window!
Guy

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Originally Posted by Darkspeed

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/wp-cont...r-1024x768.jpg

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All Bling, Thrust and Grunt, but no finesse in handling the Curves !!!!

Robin, I've had women say that exact same thing to me.... ;)

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Originally Posted by Longtimefan

All Bling, Thrust and Grunt, but no finesse in handling the Curves !!!!

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LOL - Whatever...

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Originally Posted by Longtimefan

All Bling, Thrust and Grunt, but no finesse in handling the Curves !!!!

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Pretty well sums up my driving style.

:)

We're 'part-exing' now, and it's a different eBay member selling.

New eBay listing

"May take cheaper p/ex"....Cosworth, Metro 6R4, 911RS?? Er, good luck with that :)

What I don't understand is why the advert is practically the same.

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Originally Posted by Normb666

What I don't understand is why the advert is practically the same.

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Surely not? It's a completely different seller.;)

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Originally Posted by ProtoTipo

Surely not? It's a completely different seller.;)

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It's not a new seller he just put clean underwear on!

Not something I've LONGED for....................................


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264968928...8AAOSwZo5ffZO4

And it's off again.....

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Originally Posted by ChrisCar6

And it's off again.....

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Oh, and it's back on again! Presume that's a space saver spare in the front? His tumble drier isn't ideally placed.

Well if anyone fancies a Metro 6R4 replica you'd better snap this one up right now!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324782463...oAAOSwwllgwg~b

Because tomorrow it's going to be £100k plus if the seller sticks to his usual routine!

Guy

Why does something not look quite right? Wheels? Suspension height?

What happened to the Hawk?

Your probably correct guy same car in green short while ago 45kAttachment 18784

The car was last spotted for sale in Preston by a guy who seems to trade in rally replicas - he had the 6R4 for sale on eBay around 6 months ago. I guess they did a part exchange deal. It looks as though the Hawk may have been eventually sold by the Preston guy, having vanished from eBay and not been seen for a while!

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Originally Posted by ah_sprite

The car was last spotted for sale in Preston by a guy who seems to trade in rally replicas - he had the 6R4 for sale on eBay around 6 months ago. I guess they did a part exchange deal. It looks as though the Hawk may have been eventually sold by the Preston guy, having vanished from eBay and not been seen for a while!

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The Preston ebay listing is still there, post sale:
Pirelli Hawk in Preston

I think 80 grand for a 30 year old replica is pushing his luck a bit .

I think the market agrees!

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Originally Posted by ProtoTipo

The Preston ebay listing is still there, post sale:
Pirelli Hawk in Preston

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As I said, the listing ended on 18th/19th June.