The 'Bonhams' chassis made £40k.
It's a huge amount of someone's time to pay for. I'd hate to think what someone would need to charge, even for a small batch.
What would you be happy to pay for one?
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The 'Bonhams' chassis made £40k.
It's a huge amount of someone's time to pay for. I'd hate to think what someone would need to charge, even for a small batch.
What would you be happy to pay for one?
HelloQuote:
Originally Posted by john
As thread is coming back to more "tecnical" discussion ( LOL :rolleyes::rolleyes:;)) Am back again !! RELOL !!!
Don"t think so John ; even we are now on more modern ways to obtain parts ( Laser cut , 3D printing etc)
Building such a steel monocoque will still remain something verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry expensive !!!!
There is avery interesting sample to examine and watch, it's the Ford GT40 ; there are many good "replica's" with tube welded chassis panelled ( like the existing Stratos replica suppliers)
but there are only 2 or 3 ( may be maximum 4 am not really sure ) suppliers able to manufacture steel welded monocoques and these units are so expensive that most suppliers do not supply those as kit but only as rolling or turn key cars
Just check at Gelscoe or , Superformance prices and you will understand that level of price is very very far from Hawk or LB price list !! Those monocoque are more dedied to replace items on real cars or even create "new old cars" as now HTP papers are given to these "millionaires" customers in order to increase number of racinng cars in some Historics championships ( ELMS or watever historic serie) !!
It's not enought to have some panels laser cut and folded !!!
Beside the fact many of those parts need to be pressed ( and not only rolled with an english Wheel !!) ; to assemble such steel monocoque you will need a much more accurate and stronger jig than simple MDF panel
In top of this you will need too, at least 4 or may be 5/6 different spot welders with cooper ends differently shaped to reach all tricky spaces all around the roof and door areas
So just calculate :
1/Time spend to redo a complete new drawing of the tub
2 / money to machine minimum 15 to 20 complicated tooling press for windscreen surrounding , roof ,front and rear door panels all panels for the bulkhead and sills
3/ laser cut all panels AND rear tubes ; find someone who will accept to press a very very small batch of panels ( rare to find nowadays with the actual economy )
4/ Built a very strong steel table plus all 8or 10mm thick supports to be mecanically fit on this table to guaranty an accurate and strong position when welding panels and then rear frane and then be able to unmold that lot of welding whithout distorsion !
5/ spend time to weld all the stuff correctly ( at least twice than anormal tube chassis!!)
6/ Finally give to that steel monocoque an mandatory "Cataphorése" protection to be sure that you protect definitivly blind areas and spot welded lines
Try to do a total and you will have the same prohibitive price these GT40 monocoque manufacturers are asking for the same work
The fact is that price is only the result of a too big ratio in beetween the hudge investment done and the too many hours of labor to assemble one item compared to the very small amount of tubs done by year !!!!
So to my humble opinon; yes we are on the 21th century with so modern and amazing new tecnology but Halas sometime this modern tecnology is not enought to produce at reasonable price that nice chassis these italian engineers from Lancia have produced ( probably into fiat welding lines ??)
This said I think too that a single crazy and courageaous builder is able with a lot of skills to built his own steel tub if he is able to built wood tools from some good hand drawings of remolded epoxy forms and then "hammered "one by one all specific parts plus using only of spot welder with moveable cooper weld ends etc etc . just one question ? who is able to achieve such work and how long it will take ???
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I would think there would be a market for an accurate steel shell at around £40k.The market for extremely authentic replicas seems strong these days, perhaps Gerry could get the people who produce his aluminium Cobra shell in Poland to take a look. That would be different.Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoTipo
Yes 40K for the Monocoque ....
and then ?????
can you add the right price for ;
original copies for rear uprights from Marvic ?
a complete set of Magnesium wheels ?
Rear set of hubs ( advertised on the net at 12900 euros )
set of historic AP calipers at more than 10000pounds the set
And then
where to find the exact Dino ferrari engine ? just ask a quote to those specialists in north Italy !!! OUCH
Where to find the so rare gearbox ? No more avaiblemaincase foundries and gears are sold as if they where machined into gold billets
Oh stop being negative Michel! :p
HA HA nooooo but realistic !! LOL
By chance all replica's built from Hawk or listerbell or watever older kits are very very nice and probably suffice to give a lot of fun to their owners !!!
Am wondering if a steel monocoque will add more to that pleasure you all get when doing those excellent club meetings ?
Does a steel monocoque will help more a fellow like Phil to do so well in Brittania tour ?
All these builts are unique one by one and this is great !!!
I would not argue with any point you make Michel. Your experience is far greater than mine.
I didn't say "easy" though, just easier.
Also I don't think it would be necessary to actually press panels, except for the sake of 99.9% replication. You could build up most of the pressed panels from separate components.
But the points you make bring us right back to the core thread subject. "What is real and what is replica". The hard truth is that, as it has already been said, anything that was not made in Italy in the 70's is a replica. What we are discussing here is the degree of replication. The Gartrac shells and/or the alleged shells produced in France or wherever, are to date probably the nearest replication.
It is that very article, the degree of replication which each individual decides for themselves.
I can understand the desire to get as close as possible. AND admire it.
It's just not for me.
There has to be a compromise factoring in cost, practicality, safety and performance and all those factors are considered from a personal viewpoint.
I could not spend as much as some people have and not be frightened to death of taking it anywhere.
I could not use some of the power that others spend so much money on... But on the other hand because I wasn't risking so much money, maybe I could go just as fast?!
And very definitely I couldn't worry about if my mudflaps were laser cut or hacked about with a stanley knife!
Each to his own and respect what others do.
Yes John ! I agree 100/100 with you on every term of your post
"Each to his own and respect what others do."
This is a very very nice phrase everybody need to remind when they are watching to Replicas !
Here here.
Yup. :-)