I might have asked this before, but
Is this the car that the Allora moulds were taken from?
Or is it more complicated than that?
Scheldt and Pettet
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I might have asked this before, but
Is this the car that the Allora moulds were taken from?
Or is it more complicated than that?
Scheldt and Pettet
I believe so! The Allora cars have a distinctive point to the from clam seen on this car in it's lifetime. I also believe that the shell was damaged on a number of occasions and this may not have been put straight every time, the screen aperture may have also been distorted....
Guy
I was also under the impression that this was the case but the Allora moulds are Stradale & the rear canopy on this car is not (parts on centre tub obviously removable), I haven't seen the body lines behind the front wheel arches on this car which would be a give away aswell as the nose tip. I haven't seen any pics of the Scheldt & Pettet car with the "exaggerated" LHS body lines that the early Allora had but these would go along with the accident damage theory.
The version of the car in this pic also has modified front light rebates & roof spoiler. The top section of the roof spoiler is flat though.
Craig,Quote:
Originally Posted by Strat Fan
Here's a LH side shot of this car:
S&P car
I have some video of it on a vhs tape.
This is one those 'yes and no' answers. The S&P car was built from a badly damaged tub and, for example, this is shown by the lack of curvature in the roof section. This error is reproduced by the Allora so I think it's safe to say that the tub mould was taken from the S&P car. The front and rear sections on both cars are aftermarket Italian sourced bodywork, which was all that was commercially available at the time. Did Stuart Gross buy his own or simply mould off S&P's? Probably the former.
The "hollow roof" attributed to some Corse's is actually a bit of a myth. (Can't speak for Alloras, as I have not seen any in the raw fibreglass state.)
The original Corse mould I had for a little while, which came from Hugh Carson, had a very flexible roof section.
If it was stored with something on top of it for a while then sure enough you would get a hollow roof moulding out of it.
If you turned it upside down and put a bag of sand inside it before you laid up your panel then you got a nicely rounded roof.
So I don't think in the Corse case it was 'owt to do with the car it was moulded from, more the way the moulds were stored between uses!
I'd say you were right John.Quote:
Originally Posted by john
The roof on David Jowsey's Allora (which I've seen an many occasions) is very good.
Here's a photo of it:
Yes, Chris.
There are quite a few good ones about.
I first doubted what I'd been told about the Corse moulds when I saw Simon Tattersall's Corse centre tub "in the raw". It had an excellent roof shape.
Then when I retrieved the Corse moulds from Belgium I found out for myself. You could actually pop the roof mould in and out with your foot!
Leave it in when you were laying up and you were just moulding yourself a load of trouble.
More information on this subject gained at Goodwood on Saturday when we were lucky enough to be introduced to Dave Scheldt in person.
When Scheldt and Pettet bought the car they raced and hill climbed from Germany they also bought two damaged cars for knock down prices for the spares they could salvage. Dave told me that one car was bought for an intact windscreen alone!
It was one of these damaged shells that Stuart Gross took the moulds from for the Allora.
Dave told me that it had a damaged A post and roof above had reportedly been damaged by the drivers crash helmet from within. Ouch!!
Dave lives locally to Goodwood now and was interested and kind enough to allow me to take his photo next to Frederics car.
'Talking to Craig at Phil's last week, and he doubts that anything (Allora) was moulded from this tub, but probably the front:Quote:
Originally Posted by john
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3382/3...48a_z.jpg?zz=1
So it looks like this second S&P tub could have supplied the mould for the centre section?
Anyhow, that's a great bit of Stratos replica kit history you've found out there John. Thanks.
"Stratos at knocked down prices" That's not going to happen again, is it?!
Thanks John,
wonderful story! so we know some more about the Allora moulds.
It certainly goes a long way to explain why the Scheldt & Pettet race car has always appeared to be straight & the Allora moulds appeared to be from a damaged car.
Nice to get some actual facts to add to the history of Stratos replicas.
its a shame Stuart didn't mould that round arch rear canopy when he was in the process as that would have saved many Corse owners hours of fun converting the Stradale rear to round arch Gp4.
Ain't that the truth! Shows how things change over the years. That in those days you could buy a damaged car just to salvage the windscreen! A genuine chassis number plate would be worth a fortune on its own today.Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoTipo
Dave was a nice guy to talk to and a shame the pressures of the day did not allow me more time. He is clearly a respected figure in the Lancia world and probably a fountain of valuable knowledge on things Stratos.
I read a nice article recently written by Derek Bell talking about the restoration of his own Fulvia entrusted to Scheldt and Pettet.
Hi John
At least the roof is in good shape ! The engine has been doing that famous party dance, in out in out shake it all about, but now back in and alls well. We need to catch up so will ring you in the next day or so.
Hey Simon! Good to hear from you. I've got Frederics car here at the moment if you want to have a look and inspire yourself for that last push!
As an Allora owner this is an interesting post. One thing i have found is not the flat roof (mine is flattish ) but the curve from the roof to side panel (B pillar) is unequal side to side. My tub got damaged some years ago in an RTA and has been repaired using a side panel from a Hawk but I purchased a Corse centre tub couple of years ago. It would seem this tub has the same issue re the curve / shape of roof to B pillar so i can only assume was made from a modified Allora mold
All the Corse bodies have a connection to the Allora moulds. I'm sure that the Allora moulds came as part of whatever deal was arranged for the project. At some point these moulds maybe got modified to try and eliminate some of the issues with the LH sill & door line. From memory CAE had some mods done, maybe to the section of bodyline just behind the front wheel arch. The later Tony Favarin moulds were only a rip off of the existing Corse ones but in this case the flat roof was reshaped to be convex rather than concave. All the other issues I am sure were carried over. The Favarin bodies are distinguishable because of their weight, whilst the original Corse bodies were not a great fit you could move and manipulate them to get them to be the best they could be. The Favarin body I saw (Mick W's) I think was probably bullet proof, it was twice the thickness of a conventional lay up and it was so rigid that where it sat was where it sat.Quote:
Originally Posted by SUSIT
As talked about in the depths of this forum the Corse roof probably got more concave over time, the early Allora's still had the convex roof but as the years went on the roofs got flatter & flatter. This was because the centre tub mould had no stiffening frame and the weight of the mould sat on the roof section during lay up. The longer it sat this way the more concave the panels became.
I must have been really lucky with my tub then. AFAIK, I had the last moulding Hugh made and the roof was pretty good. I think you even commented on it once didn't you Craig?
When I had the moulds, after retrieving them from Belgium where Lionel had sent them, I found that the centre tub mould had a concave roof. I suspect this was because it had had something stored on top of it.
Now as far as I know Lee Priestland made a couple of sets of bodywork from these moulds after Hugh finished and I also suspect that Dave Watson had a set made after borrowing the moulds from Lee. I think the set that Dave made may have ended up with Simon T when Simon bought his Corse I kit off Dave. Now I was intrigued when I saw Simons centre tub because the roof was NOT concave. This gave me the idea that the mould for the centre tub might actually be flexible and sure enough when I turned the mould upside down on some bags of sand and then put a further couple of bags inside the mould it did indeed regain the "correct" shape over a day or two. Or as good as the Allora/Corse roof ever was anyway.
So as Craig says with no proper bracing on the mould (and the mould layup being less than ideal if it can flex) it became the luck of the draw what shape roof you got out of the mould. More dependant on how it was stored between uses than anything else.
These original Allora/Corse moulds did go on to be used again for Napiersports last few kits and this is actually where Susit's centre section came from. Hopefully it's roof shape is ok?
The moulds are God knows where now. They were on eBay in Yorkshire some time ago and they may have been bought and then returned to the seller as their "ownership" is a little in doubt and definitely not clearly defined from a legal standpoint.
Sad end to the story really.
Sorry to drag up an old thread.
just wondering if anybody would know what/which vin number was the car that was moulded?
I really doubt any specific chassis number could be identified as the source of the moulds.
Dave Scheldt told me that they bought as many as 3 Stratos tubs from Germany. It could have been any one or more of those which were used to mould from and I sincerely doubt the chassis numbers will have been noted at the time.
HI, does anyone know which circuit this photo of the Scheldt & Pettet stratos was taken?
Cheers
The photo in post 1 is Silverstone.Quote:
Originally Posted by maxstratos
Just wondering if anybody would recognise this old livery. ??Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotonda
No knowledge really. Although the photo could depict Scheldt and Pettit collecting Stratos shells from Germany as described at Post 11.
Where did you find the photo?
Hi John.
Thank you. I have sent you a pm.
The Scheldt and Pettet car I believe is accounted for and now in Aus.
Were just trying to ascertain if anybody recalled that pizzeria car from old pics etc. We assume it was raced in Germany as it was at leinbergers.