Just bought a Stratos in Australia - Grateful for any Info on the Car

Hi All, just joined. Thanks to all those who make this site possible - great resource for a Stratos Rookie. I have just bought a Stratos in Australia and would appreciate it if anyone can tell me a bit about the history of the car. I believe the car is a Hawk or Transformer chassis (828CB1023027). Im not sure how to interpret the chassis number - for example is this car number 027 or 82 or 3027 etc on the Site Register?). The car will be known to some of you for sure. It is a pretty true to original car with Dino engine and transaxle. Original magnesium coffin wheels and such like. Pretty cool piece of kit but in need of some TLC which it will now get. The car has some race / rally history in Australia and carries a log book. Apparently the car was originally built by someone from Superformance (the Ferrari Parts Specialist in the UK) where it spent much of its early life. It would be great to know the original UK registration and the name of the person that built the car. Look forward to finding out more about these amazing cars. Thanks again. SBDaytona

Hello,

Is it this one?

i know first Transformer chassis have the donor car VIN
and 828BC is a Lancia Beta Coupe VIN!
my car it's an Allora and have also the VIN 828BC 3........

BTW: nice Stratos!

As has already been mentioned the chassis number is that of a Lancia Beta donor car. The Transformer (or Hawk) chassis number should be stamped in two places, most obvious one will be on the front of the servo mounting bracket under the front clip. The same number will appear on the rear of the chassis to the left of the removeable section. It's probably something along the lines of "SPY8805048" (which is my chassis number). This breaks down as a Spyder chassis from 1988, May to be precise, and the 48th chassis made by Transformer Cars.

Given that this car is Dino powered which is rare I believe that this is the car that was built by Peter Ashdown in the UK way back when! If it's this car I remember seeing at a show in the UK and talking to Peter, probably in 1988 or 1989, probably at Stafford. The car was on Gerrys stand with the front and rear clips open to show the engine off and the front suspension etc. We chatted for 20 minutes before he closed the panels up and I could see the number plates on the car. If you've got any UK registration documentation it will show PFY1T if it's this car. Which is REALLY annoying as I asked Peter to sell me the plate if he ever sold the car. Which he forgot to do.... My car is registered PFY3T you see...... AND the Fiat Punto I have is PFY2T. Strange that two Beta's, originally registered here in Liverpool two plates apart ended up as donors for Stratos replicas.

Should you have the registration docs for this car please PM me, I may be interested is a copy :o

Guy

Sean
Welcome on SEC and congratulations for your nice Stratos purchased
If you have any photos please post them
Frederic

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Originally Posted by ProtoTipo

Hello,

Is it this one?

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Same VIN as on the Ebay action, so hopefully the same car.

Regards
René

In the photos, the rear wheels are magnesium. The fronts are Hawk 8"

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Originally Posted by ProtoTipo

Hello,

Is it this one?

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Yup same car. Needs a fair bit of TLC so did not pay near the asking. Many thanks for the interest in the car.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Guy Mayers

As has already been mentioned the chassis number is that of a Lancia Beta donor car. The Transformer (or Hawk) chassis number should be stamped in two places, most obvious one will be on the front of the servo mounting bracket under the front clip. The same number will appear on the rear of the chassis to the left of the removeable section. It's probably something along the lines of "SPY8805048" (which is my chassis number). This breaks down as a Spyder chassis from 1988, May to be precise, and the 48th chassis made by Transformer Cars.

Given that this car is Dino powered which is rare I believe that this is the car that was built by Peter Ashdown in the UK way back when! If it's this car I remember seeing at a show in the UK and talking to Peter, probably in 1988 or 1989, probably at Stafford. The car was on Gerrys stand with the front and rear clips open to show the engine off and the front suspension etc. We chatted for 20 minutes before he closed the panels up and I could see the number plates on the car. If you've got any UK registration documentation it will show PFY1T if it's this car. Which is REALLY annoying as I asked Peter to sell me the plate if he ever sold the car. Which he forgot to do.... My car is registered PFY3T you see...... AND the Fiat Punto I have is PFY2T. Strange that two Beta's, originally registered here in Liverpool two plates apart ended up as donors for Stratos replicas.

Should you have the registration docs for this car please PM me, I may be interested is a copy :o

Guy

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Thanks a million Guy and others. This helps a great deal. I don't think there are any old UK rego papers with the car but I have not been through all the boxes yet. Will definitely let you know if I come across anything useful. I have names of previous owners in Australia so will ask if they have anything as well.

Sounds like it might be the Peter Ashdown car. Dates and description fit. There can't have been too many Dino engined cars built. The Beta Coupe donor car number makes sense - as the import papers show reference to a Beta. I will look around for another number on the car that might tell us what the Transformer number is.

Thanks again for all the help. Great to have this resource available.
Sean :)

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Originally Posted by ProtoTipo

In the photos, the rear wheels are magnesium. The fronts are Hawk 8"

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Correct - the original fronts are around somewhere but have some cracking. The Hawk Gp4 rears look pretty wide - wider than the ones on this car. I there anything available in this width or do you have to go with either 8" all round or the big rears and flares?

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Originally Posted by SBDaytona

Correct - the original fronts are around somewhere but have some cracking. The Hawk Gp4 rears look pretty wide - wider than the ones on this car. I there anything available in this width or do you have to go with either 8" all round or the big rears and flares?

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Hi,
Here's a link to a photo of the Omicron car fitted with 8" front and 10" rear Tecnomagnesio wheels.
Omicron Stradale
The magnesium 10" coffin spoke Campagnolos are the limit for Stradale rear arches. The offset on these wheels is exactly right for an original car. A 10x15" rim from a different manufacturer would probably have the wrong offset. I've seen 10 x 15" Revolutions on the back of a Stradale Hawk, and they were too wide for the arches. 10x15" magnesium coffin spokes are available from ROIN (see here)

I'm pretty sure the wheels on the rear of your car on the ebay listing photos, are Tecnomagnesio 9x15". I had similar magnesium wheels on the rear of my own Stradale arched Hawk, sourced from Udo Sparwald in Germany but manufactured in Italy. I had 270 section tyres fitted.

The Hawk wheels are available in 8x15 and 12x15 only. The 12" rears are far too wide for a Stradale, and you would need group 4 arches. People normally fit 285, 295, 335 or 345 tyres to to 12" rims.

Photo of Stradale with 12" rears!

Thanks for all the excellent information on wheels and offsets ProtoTipo - very useful indeed. I was not aware of many of the options and suppliers. I like the wheels, offset and flares on the car as it is. I will have to have the rears checked for cracks I hope they are ok as I am reluctant to go to a full Grp4 look. There is a serious level knowledge and experience available on this site - thanks again for generously helping out a newcomer.

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Originally Posted by SBDaytona

I like the wheels, offset and flares on the car as it is.

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Yep, I agree, 9" at the back looks good with Stradale bodywork.
Here's a car with 9 x15 magnesium wheels and 270 section tyres.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Guy Mayers

As has already been mentioned the chassis number is that of a Lancia Beta donor car. The Transformer (or Hawk) chassis number should be stamped in two places, most obvious one will be on the front of the servo mounting bracket under the front clip. The same number will appear on the rear of the chassis to the left of the removeable section. It's probably something along the lines of "SPY8805048" (which is my chassis number). This breaks down as a Spyder chassis from 1988, May to be precise, and the 48th chassis made by Transformer Cars.

Given that this car is Dino powered which is rare I believe that this is the car that was built by Peter Ashdown in the UK way back when! If it's this car I remember seeing at a show in the UK and talking to Peter, probably in 1988 or 1989, probably at Stafford. The car was on Gerrys stand with the front and rear clips open to show the engine off and the front suspension etc. We chatted for 20 minutes before he closed the panels up and I could see the number plates on the car. If you've got any UK registration documentation it will show PFY1T if it's this car. Which is REALLY annoying as I asked Peter to sell me the plate if he ever sold the car. Which he forgot to do.... My car is registered PFY3T you see...... AND the Fiat Punto I have is PFY2T. Strange that two Beta's, originally registered here in Liverpool two plates apart ended up as donors for Stratos replicas.

Should you have the registration docs for this car please PM me, I may be interested is a copy :o

Guy

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I have just received a file on the car which contains some interesting historical details. The car was indeed owned by Peter Ashdown - so you are correct Guy - thanks. I have not found any registration details from the UK so no luck with that - not even a photo with the plates visible. All the Australian registration details are there which is useful. It would be good to contact Peter at some stage if anyone knows his whereabouts.

There are some excellent period photos of the car in the file. At one time in its life it was a fantastic looking machine. Inspiration to get the car back to something close to its former glory.

I have had a look for some other serial numbers or chassis numbers but am unable to find anything other than the one give above (stamped into the RHR Chassis Plate). This is the number that appears on all the documentation.

Got the car running much better after a carbs overhaul.

Hi Mine's a Transformer too from the same period. I'm also restoring mine to it's former glory. Looking at the photos of your car it looks like the servo mounting plate has been removed so no chassis number there. See the pictures below. One shows the servo plate and you can make out the stamping, the other shows where my other stamp is. I had to look twice here before I found mine there so look carefully. Good luck...Steve


Attachment 4189Attachment 4188

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Originally Posted by ][\/][ajor

Hi Mine's a Transformer too from the same period. I'm also restoring mine to it's former glory. Looking at the photos of your car it looks like the servo mounting plate has been removed so no chassis number there. See the pictures below. One shows the servo plate and you can make out the stamping, the other shows where my other stamp is. I had to look twice here before I found mine there so look carefully. Good luck...Steve

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Thanks Steve, very clear now that you have showed me where to look. As you say no servo on the car now - not sure if there ever was one - so no numbers there. I will have a very good look at the rear chassis for the numbers in the location you have outlined. Very helpful - thanks again. Had a good day working on the car today. Full overhaul of the carbs and then set and balanced them. The throttle linkage is worn so can't get them perfectly synced but they are night and day better than they were. The car is starting to drive pretty well. Needs a wheel alignment - took a few measurements and the rear looks to be a bit off. The short wheel base will exacerbate any alignment issues. Next job is to track down a few engine oils leaks. Sean

Hi Sean welcome aboard.
A tip on the alignment -if you can get a 4 wheel alignment done you will get far better result then trying to do the ends individually. If the aligner needs a reference car try using fiat X1/9 settings these will give you a good enough starting point.

My Transformer/Hawk didnt have the chassis number on the Servo mounting but is on the back of the top corner rear chasis rail shown in the picture. If you find the back issues of the earlier club magazines there is an article in one of them on the chassis numbers and what they mean chassis wise - Spyder / Saftey devices / SD/Hawk and the year and month of manufacture etc.
Rob

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Originally Posted by Sando

Hi Sean welcome aboard.
A tip on the alignment -if you can get a 4 wheel alignment done you will get far better result then trying to do the ends individually. If the aligner needs a reference car try using fiat X1/9 settings these will give you a good enough starting point.


Rob

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Do you have a reccommended local 4 wheel alignment place Rob? Need to get mine done.... if i ever get it back that is!

I used Nottinghan Alignment Service Basford - Unit off Church St. just of the Nottingham ring road. No link as web site is not working at the mo though? alignment-services.co.uk
Think they also have place at the old cattle market near the County ground.
Depends who you get on the day, I had a better experience the first time I went than the second BUT thats just the people, the kit is the same, the important thing is it really gets the car working properly. The X1/9 settings as a baseline in the system are actually not too far off with small amount of rear toe. If you can live with it fine, or you can adjust from their setup knowing you are all square.
The first time - evening up the castor probably made the best improvement along with getting the rear set back and everything squared up.
Set the ride height you want before you go and be prepared to have to correct camber too, can probably do on the day with a Corse. had to go away to sort the Hawk front Camber as you have to crack the top rose joint off to make any adjustment to it.

Cheers Rob, I think that is one of the places I have been looking at, there were a couple in Nottingham, so i was planning to have a drive round and see them face to face and get a feel for which to use...
Should be able to do everything on the corse on the day, as its all on rose joints - the pain is the front camber as getting the rose joint and spacers back together inside the chassis box section is fiddly to say the least..
Also the rear is hard to do at home, as there are 3 rose joints to adjust and all afffect each other - much easier with a propper 4 wheel system that cam measure as you adjust....

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Originally Posted by SBDaytona

Thanks Steve, very clear now that you have showed me where to look. Sean

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Sorry Sean, I think I've just checked mine and found my memory is failing. It's at the top on the rear face as per below. Hope you didn't waste too much time looking :o


Attachment 4207

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ][\/][ajor

Sorry Sean, I think I've just checked mine and found my memory is failing. It's at the top on the rear face as per below. Hope you didn't waist too much time looking :o


Attachment 4207

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Yep mine is in the same place, 1986 vintage...!

Thanks Guys, I have found the number on the rear of the chassis (like in the photo Steve) and it reads the same as the number on the registration (what people tell me is a Beta donor number). No sign of any other numbers that might tell me a bit more about the Hawk / Transformer build etc.
Thanks for the tips on wheel alignment. Usually do this myself but need to get the car on a good four wheel aligner to get it properly squared up. I suspect it is not square from a few string line measurements. Got a good place where we can take it after hours - so we can take our time. Good to know about X19 measurements being a good start thanks. I have a Stratos Manual which has some specs but not sure if these are ok for my car. I will compare with X19 and see how different the specs are.
Got the car registered and took it for a run. Pretty good all up. Didn't get stuck at the side of the road in any case. Engine was sweet. Shift is good. Clutch feels like a competition unit - very rapid take up. Lots of hot air and some fumes making their way into the cabin - mostly through the shift gate. Quite the sauna on a 30 degree day. Windows down seemed to make no difference whatsoever. A bit twitchy and nervous (wheel alignment will fix this I am sure). Great fun.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Guy Mayers

As has already been mentioned the chassis number is that of a Lancia Beta donor car. The Transformer (or Hawk) chassis number should be stamped in two places, most obvious one will be on the front of the servo mounting bracket under the front clip. The same number will appear on the rear of the chassis to the left of the removeable section. It's probably something along the lines of "SPY8805048" (which is my chassis number). This breaks down as a Spyder chassis from 1988, May to be precise, and the 48th chassis made by Transformer Cars.

Given that this car is Dino powered which is rare I believe that this is the car that was built by Peter Ashdown in the UK way back when! If it's this car I remember seeing at a show in the UK and talking to Peter, probably in 1988 or 1989, probably at Stafford. The car was on Gerrys stand with the front and rear clips open to show the engine off and the front suspension etc. We chatted for 20 minutes before he closed the panels up and I could see the number plates on the car. If you've got any UK registration documentation it will show PFY1T if it's this car. Which is REALLY annoying as I asked Peter to sell me the plate if he ever sold the car. Which he forgot to do.... My car is registered PFY3T you see...... AND the Fiat Punto I have is PFY2T. Strange that two Beta's, originally registered here in Liverpool two plates apart ended up as donors for Stratos replicas.

Should you have the registration docs for this car please PM me, I may be interested is a copy :o

Guy

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Hi Guy, I was talking to one of the previous owners of the car - the guy who imported it to Australia in fact. He was kind enough to offer me some old photos of the car competing in the Rally of Tasmania. When the photos turned up there was also a copy of the Australian Import Permit and a copy of a past Registration Document from the UK. I have only glanced at it but it shows Peter Ashdown as the owner and the registration as PFY1T. Which confirms your suspicions. Let me know if you would like a copy of the doc. Sean

Thanks Sean, I'd love a copy of that! I won't be able to obtain the plate but it'd be nice to see it! My email is guymayers@blueyonder.co.uk

Cheers

Guy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Guy Mayers

Thanks Sean, I'd love a copy of that! I won't be able to obtain the plate but it'd be nice to see it! My email is guymayers@blueyonder.co.uk

Cheers

Guy

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Why not Guy ??.... if it is no longer required because the car is registered in Oz !....... should be worth investigating
Phil

I'm pretty sure that they won't reissue a plate once the car it was originally attached to is no longer in existence. Short of re-importing the car or finding the original donor (it was a Beta saloon) the only other possibility is ringing another Sedan. And that's not something I'd contemplate, the criminal conviction would have a really serious impact on me! It may be worth a call to the DVLA though if I could "buy" the cherished plate from the owner in Aus!

Guy

Go for it Guy...... They can only say no at worse !

Just finished a wheel alignment on the Stratos. The behaviour of the car is transformed. The alignment was way out - making the car very nervous and twitchy. I don't know how people can put up with such a poorly sorted car. We have gone for a very conservative set up for now just to see how the car behaves. Basically 2mm toe & 1 degree Neg camber in front with neutral rear & 1.5 degree neg camber on the rear. The car is very well behaved now - sharp turn-in, nicely balanced and no longer tram rails over the bumps and imperfections in the road. You can take your hands off the wheel at 160 with no dramas. Very happy.

Havent forgotten the rego doc Guy - have been travelling and the file on the car is with my partner - will get to it. Sorry for the delay.
Sean

Hi Sean,

Front sounds fines but I would suggest the same amount of toe in on the rear as the front for a bit of extra stability under braking.

Cheers

Sounds good Craig, we were going to go there next. Pretty good now but like you say some toe in on the rear should improve further. Any suggestions on tire pressures? Take care. Sean

Several opinions on this and low pressures but for road tyres I prefer 18 front Toyo R1R. and 23 rear Pirelli Pzero 345.
the front is so light it doesn't need much for the road. Try it and work upwards then come back and see how it feels. Depends on tyres springs and damping too, and types of road, but a lot of UK cars run in that ballpark.
For circuit you will need to up the fronts or you might find them rolling off the edges too much in longer high speed corners.
hope that helps
Rob

Hi,

Was that the car at the Canberra AutoItalia show a few weeks ago? Where are you based? My Stratos is on a boat heading for Melbourne as I write.

John

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sando

Several opinions on this and low pressures but for road tyres I prefer 18 front Toyo R1R. and 23 rear Pirelli Pzero 345.
the front is so light it doesn't need much for the road. Try it and work upwards then come back and see how it feels. Depends on tyres springs and damping too, and types of road, but a lot of UK cars run in that ballpark.
For circuit you will need to up the fronts or you might find them rolling off the edges too much in longer high speed corners.
hope that helps
Rob

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Many thanks Rob - travelling at present but will try your suggestions when I return. Currently running tyre pressures higher than you recommend and some toe-in at the rear should help a bit. Car is getting better and better. Might be time to give it a new paint job at this rate.
Best wishes
Sean

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Originally Posted by TheFlagStratos

Hi,

Was that the car at the Canberra AutoItalia show a few weeks ago? Where are you based? My Stratos is on a boat heading for Melbourne as I write.

John

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Same car John - based on a property between Canberra and Goulburn. Pity we didn't get to catch up. What kind of Stratos have you got on the way? Sounds exciting. Sean

Sean,

Mines a HF2000 (not running) an 8v Integrale in Chequered Flag trim. Currently in the Docks at Melbourne where it has been for the past week. I can take longer to travel 800m in the Docks here that the shipping leg from Singapore....

John

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheFlagStratos

Sean,

Mines a HF2000 (not running) an 8v Integrale in Chequered Flag trim. Currently in the Docks at Melbourne where it has been for the past week. I can take longer to travel 800m in the Docks here that the shipping leg from Singapore....

John

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Sounds like a great project John - understand the frustration regarding the docks. Look forward to seeing the car at some stage. All the very best and keep us updated on your progress. Sean