A few Lister Bell questions for a member in the U.S.

Saving up funds for a LB stratos. My plan is to buy the suspension, chassis, braking pack, lighting pack and wheel package to start. Yes, I know it would cost me more in the long run if I kept purchasing kit components from LB, but I want to source my own cooling package/engine, wiring harness, and misc. bits. I am curious as to what engines everyone is using? Been thinking of the Toyota V6, for reliability and power. I believe it is the same engine in the new elise as well as the rav4? Or possibly 4runner?

However, I do have a few questions along the lines of: What engines are you guys using putting in your LB? I know of two that are being shipped to detroit/michigan. Any others in the U.S.? What is the lead time for the non-complete kit/items I listed at the beginning? Typically how much of a deposit do they require?

Anxiously waiting on some replies!

Hello and welcome.
The most relevant engine to use in the states is one of the v6 variants that were available in the 164 Alfa. I have heard of other owners in the past, (not Lister Bell cars though) that have used Honda engines maybe and possibly Toyota? Other members should probably chime in on that. You would have to source your own engine anyway, as I do not believe there is a legal way to get an engine to the states with the kit. Too many issues with that. Its pretty easy to find a 164 if that is the route you choose. They sound so good, look great, and are v-6 Italian too!

The largest piece you left out of the puzzle in your list is the body. Did you intend on getting that at the same time as the chassis? It saves on cost/hassle of shipping for sure if you can get as much as possible the first time round in one crate.

Craig will have to weigh in on the wait times now, as he has grown quite popular I am sure with recent press.

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Originally Posted by bosmass

I have heard of other owners in the past, (not Lister Bell cars though) that have used Honda engines maybe and possibly Toyota? Other members should probably chime in on that.

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The biggest reason for use of the Honda Legend/Rover 825/827 V6 engine in Stratos replicas, was because at that time (the very end of the 80s) there were no other suitable V6 engines. The Alfa 164 engines were very hard to find back then, and even in the mid 1990s. There's more than plenty Alfa V6 now.
I can't think of any Toyota engined Stratos replicas?

The Busso Alfa V6 is the engine of choice for a Stratos replica. If you choose anything else, you'll be ploughing your own furrow.

If you arent bothered about having an italian engine in the car which obviously yuo are not, then the Toyota V6 would be a good choice. Its a much more modern engine than the 164 Engine and so will be easier to get service items for in the future. The 164 V6 is already difficult to find the parts for & the later Alfas werent imported to the US, so will be very difficult to find.
The Toyota will fit the LB & I believe you will be able to buy a kit with engine mounts for that engine. You should talk to Craig at lister Bell....

Hi
A good V6 engine to consider is the Jaguar V6 variable valve timing , it will rev to 9000 rpm , cheap parts & will mate to the ford gear box !!!!

Regards Ken

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Originally Posted by ProtoTipo

I can't think of any Toyota engined Stratos replicas?

The Busso Alfa V6 is the engine of choice for a Stratos replica. If you choose anything else, you'll be ploughing your own furrow.

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Hi Chris,

There are two replicas in Australia that have the Toyota 3.5 V6 fitted, there's an LB in Canberra & a Corse in Perth. No connection between either of them.
The general reasoning is that the Alfa is simply not readily available there (& if they are prices are high) so they chose a good strong V6 engine that was available.
The US is slightly different as there were Alfa's present up until 1996 in the form of the 164 but nothing after that.
I understand that in the UK the Alfa is the engine of choice given its Italian origins, appearance & sound. With the exception of the 164 24v the service parts are still available too so it makes perfect sense.
People on other continents generally appear to be more receptive to other power plants for various reasons, whether it be availability, power requirements, service parts availability etc

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Originally Posted by Strat Fan

The US is slightly different as there were Alfa's present up until 1996 in the form of the 164 but nothing after that.

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Yes, it's a different thing for non UK builders.
The Toyota 3.5 would certainly be the 'no brainer' for when it's difficult to source an Alfa V6. Toyota V6s are already fitted to at least two volume produced mid engined cars, after all?
Ken's idea is sound too, if it's just a case of buying the best V6 for relatively little money. You'd need to get the 'Italian theme' out of your head though.

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Originally Posted by Ken Tomblin

Hi
A good V6 engine to consider is the Jaguar V6 variable valve timing , it will rev to 9000 rpm , cheap parts & will mate to the ford gear box !!!!

Regards Ken

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Hi Ken,

The Toyota 3.5 V6 mates to a couple of different transverse gearboxes & is good to 8000rpm on stock internals. It will make approx 330bhp whilst still using the standard plenum chamber but using an aftermarket ECU (275bhp stock in the Evora). Its available new of the shelf in crate form so holds a lot of appeal for continents where the Alfa is not readily available.

Regards

Hi Chris & Craig

Check out www.super7thheaven.co.ukduratecv6 loads of good info & dims. A good set up would be Jaguar xf type AJ30 engine - Ford Duratec ST220 front wheel drive gear box - Ford Duratec sump all on E-bay and Cheap!!!!!

Regards Ken

I'd say there are very good reasons for choosing either?
If money wasn't a problem, I'd go for the Toyota, employing as many stock Lotus components as possible.
The Jag gives you such a lot for your money, but nobody's done it yet.

i think something like a 2GR-fe or 2GRFSE from a sienna/camry/rx350 would be ideal mated to an MR2 turbo gearbox...the thing would absolutly fly! 3.5liter with at least 280bhp before you even tune it!

The Camry V6 has the MR2 gearbox, just with a different selector. Change the selectro to one from an MR2 and its perfect for a stratos. (Slightly different ratios though)

camry manual boxes are as rare as rockinghorse **** down this way.. i don't think they ever sold the GR series camries with a manual here.

So definately the MR2 turbo box then!

I know nothing about Toyota V6 engines and boxes.
Would any of these cars be donors? That is, the same as the Evora/Exige V6?:

• 1996–2006 Toyota Camry (V6) VVTI
  1994–2003 Lexus ES 300 & Toyota Windom (Japanese domestic market)
  1995–1999 Toyota Avalon (US market)
  1995–2004 Toyota Avalon & 2000 Toyota Pronard (Avalon for Japanese domestic market)
  1997–2003 Lexus RX 300 (2WD)
  1998–2000 Toyota Sienna
  1999–2003 Toyota Solara (V6)
  2000– Toyota Estima (Japanese domestic market)

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Originally Posted by ProtoTipo

I know nothing about Toyota V6 engines and boxes.
Would any of these cars be donors? That is, the same as the Evora/Exige V6?:

• 1996–2006 Toyota Camry (V6) VVTI
  1994–2003 Lexus ES 300 & Toyota Windom (Japanese domestic market)
  1995–1999 Toyota Avalon (US market)
  1995–2004 Toyota Avalon & 2000 Toyota Pronard (Avalon for Japanese domestic market)
  1997–2003 Lexus RX 300 (2WD)
  1998–2000 Toyota Sienna
  1999–2003 Toyota Solara (V6)
  2000– Toyota Estima (Japanese domestic market)

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Wow, did not expect this much traffic so quick!

In any case this is more along the lines of what I have been thinking, as to go with the same Toyota V6 in the Elise. My understanding is that it was fitted to the Rav4 or some other SUV equivalent though?...

I have indeed been speaking to craig about the timeline of purchasing my stratos kit, and he did tell me they are planning on offering something for the Toyota V6 at some point next year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=SAvqqiygiX0
This is a Gm LY7 and Motec - mates to a Saab Aero V6 (08) sump & gearbox but not cheep!!!

My Mate Stewart in Brisbane used a Nissan V6 3000......... don't know what it came out of though and also don't know what gearbox he used... can supply contact details if you need them

Cheers

Phil

Appreciate the replies guys! I've been swamped and getting the funds together has taken a bit longer than expected, so not terribly in a rush over the motor. Being an Ex-FSAE designer im not terribly worried either as I'm sure I would be able to come up with some sort of solution. :)

Well, finally sent the email to secure my build slot this last weekend. So fingers crossed they get back to me within the week. Anyone else with some experience with LB? I did email back and forth with Craig when I was inquiring about the kit, and he seemed pretty prompt in his responses, so not sure how long I should wait on a response??

Hi Monoposto,

Well done for taking the plunge, you wont regret it....there are more LB builder on the site at the moment than care to delcare but if I can help you in any way just ask, if I dont know (which is likely) others will.

You will find more out about the LB build in the members section but you will need to join the Club to see that info.. the best £25.00 you will ever spend building these cars.

All the best and keep the pics coming.

Ian

I've always had really good communication from Craig, he always answers my silly questions and has been extremely helpful in supplying additional information for me to pass on to the feds here to help with our version of the UK's SVA IVA stuff. It's not always same day, and that's not what I'm expecting especially as I know he's busy and there's the time difference. Give it a few days, you'll hear from him.

Congrats, that makes like 3-4 I think in the US or coming soon. The good thing for you is that others have already gone through a lot of the build process, which means it should go smoother for you. Craig will get back with a response, it will just take some time.

Oh yeah, and getting full membership here really is worth it. Its a small investment for such a large project.

Thanks for the replies guys! I was so used to him replying next day I got a bit worried.... He did indeed respond and I've since sent the build slot money. It's tough being so patient with such a great car. Will be joining the club soon, as I'm anxious to go through every ones build logs!

I know exactly what you mean, it's tough when you're so far away too. I'd love to be able to visit LB, the UK members are very lucky there. Not to mention the 12 hour time difference!

What are your guys' wait times looking like? Trying to get an idea for mine... I've emailed Craig, but have yet to hear from him on when the build for my chassis would be started. I feel as though there is a bit of a back log and Craig is a very busy man!

Anyways, cheers!

I had a year and a half wait for a complete kit from the time I paid my deposit, but it really was worth it. At the time I think Craig a few other hold ups so probably not a good yard stick, plus it was about 8-9 weeks shipping time from the UK to NZ. I think I'm holding Craig up at the moment with lots of after sales requests, I've probably been a real pain but he's been really helpful, after sales service has been great.

Fingers have you begun your build process yet? I'm going to need to pay the member fee so I can finally see the build diaries and start drooling. Yeah I don't mind the wait, just wanted a general idea as to when I should expect to put down my next deposit
My build starts in july/august!

Yes, racing through it, it's going together quicker than I thought. My goal is to have it on the road around Christmas time, we'll see! I received mine mid October last year, but had about three months off the build due to a back injury. I must add a few pictures to my build thread, but at the moment it doesn't look much different to the others, just red. I guess Craig will tell you when he's ready for each stage payment. I transferred a couple of chunks within a short space as the exchange rate was really good at that time, and it was looking like it was going to drop. Luckily it didn't.

Ah yes, the exchange rate. I've never watched it so closely! It has actually gone down a little bit the last couple weeks. I'm not terribly worried about it though...