Bad luck or sabotage ??

Was out for a beer a couple of weeks ago with the other half (the night before we went on holiday).
Car just back from the 900 mile Le Mans trip and all going well...
Came back to the car... the usual bunch of admirers and a puddle of petrol under the car.. :-(

Did the sensible thing and drove straight home :-)

Now 10pm (off to airport at 2am) and petrol now starting to seriously drip out of the car.
Short section of fuel line was the problem, so clamped tubes either side as best as I could and did a quick change.
Covered in petrol, but leak fixed..
Off to airport hoping that that the house wouldn't burn down during the hols

Back tonight and had a look... Photo shows two small holes in the rubber.
It's normal braided petrol hose... Been on for 7 years.

Bad luck or sabotage ??

Attachment 6897

Could be sabotage. ditch the rubber, I wouldnt use the stuff, ptfe only. Too many rubber hose failures for comfort.

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Originally Posted by strat24v

Could be sabotage. ditch the rubber, I wouldnt use the stuff, ptfe only. Too many rubber hose failures for comfort.

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Ditto.

Looks exactly like a hose failure I had on my BMW. Replaced two short hoses by the fuel filter and 2 1/2 years later had it spraying out under the car.
The hose looked the same as yours. Cloth braiding on the outside and the holes are identical to mine.
Mine was made by Wurth and they have now renamed this hose as 'fuel repair hose' and not for permanent use with unleaded fuel.
I was told by our Wurth sales man this was because of a court case.

Tom.

There's several treads re rubber braided!! A potential disaster ticking away.... I used braided Teflon PTFE throughout.

Thanks for all the comments guys.
Sounds like a bad choice of materials..

A winter project to replace......
All mine are push on fittings.
Does the PTFE come as a push on option or is it all unioned??

Yes I need to go that route. What fittings do you need to fit to Hawk tanks, carburettors, fuel pumps etc?

AN fittings all round, ptfe too rigid for push on.

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Originally Posted by StruanR

Yes I need to go that route. What fittings do you need to fit to Hawk tanks, carburettors, fuel pumps etc?

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Its a big job to convert everything to threadded fittings, as you need to weld fittings to the tank/fuel rail etc, much easier at the build stage.
Definately worth spending the money for peace of mind though.

Presumably you dispense with with existing banjo or push on fittings for AN threaded types. What is the solution for fuel tank pipes? A short length of push-on adapter pipe? Welding on fittings is a bit tricky with the tank in place...

Ahem ... crossed in the post!

For the later push fit fuel rails, you can buy an AN fitting/adaptor that goes straight on, seen threm available in the states, maybe summit or jegs have them? Re tanks, is remove them, wash em out then somewhere I read about pumping exhaust fumes in to neutralize the vapours. Beats me why a manufacturer would sell tanks with push on pipes these days, weld bungs aren't exactly expensive and I'd think easier to weld on.

If you can get the tanks out easily and they are not foam filled, it isnt to bad, as they can be cleaned out and purged before welding. Depending on the size of the pipes you need to convert from push on to threaded, it is possible to get a fitting that is compression on one end and male AN thread on the other.

Not sure where but I have seen them somewhere....

Krontec do hardline to AN fittings, might be worth checking their pipe size chart?

If the tube is imperial, Earls do them, or they are available here for a reasonable price...

Attachment 6904

That looks like the route for an existing installation. As long as the pipe sizes can be matched, always a mishmash of imperial and metric...:mad:

Bmrs, the ptfe hose brand that Neil and myself have used do hardline fittings also. They have a catalogue you can download from their website.
BMRS.net
I was having Email tennis with Barry at Bmrs last week, if you order your hose and fittings from them, they assemble and pressure test them free of charge.

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Originally Posted by strat24v

Bmrs, the ptfe hose brand that Neil and myself have used do hardline fittings also. They have a catalogue you can download from their website.
BMRS.net
I was having Email tennis with Barry at Bmrs last week, if you order your hose and fittings from them, they assemble and pressure test them free of charge.

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Speedflow do that too, but always good to know of personal experience ... :)

So, given I am looking to do this on my Beta, I guess the arguments are the same as above?

Now for the silly question, just looking for reassurance! Do I assume you have to cut the beaded ends off all the push on pipes before using these hardline adapters? As may make some of the pipes pretty short on the tank etc.

Peter

Yes Peter. First off you need to slide the nut onto the pipe which will be a smidge larger than the pipe itself, following that, you'll slide on an olive, not the edible variety mind. Very much like a domestic plumbing compression fitting.

For the grey cell challenged and engineering inept, if you look on your slide rules, next to the 128th of an inch mark, you'll see a faint line, that's what size a smidge is. Generally used for the clearances on a reciprocating trangullion arm or sliding marzal vane. If you require more Info on this, look on YouTube, check out the nice guy at Rockwells description of the turbo encabulator.

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Originally Posted by strat24v

Yes Peter. First off you need to slide the nut onto the pipe which will be a smidge larger than the pipe itself, following that, you'll slide on an olive, not the edible variety mind. Very much like a domestic plumbing compression fitting.

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Ok thanks, so as I thought, very household plumbing style and ensure the pipe and olive are cleaned etc. Do I need to use any additional goo to the olive, as you would normally do with domestic heating, I normally use Boss white to ensure a good seal with that, but assume not appropriate for hydrocarbons....?

Peter

Smear of fanny fat should do the trick....

Comments withdrawn

Peter

No Peter, please hang around! We need all the contributors we've got and whilst you're not in possession yet that doesn't mean you won't be one day! Please keep posting!

Guy

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Originally Posted by strat24v

Smear of fanny fat should do the trick....

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Peter don't take northern humour to serious. I think the common name may be Vaseline.

What John has said is true there are some good video descriptions on YouTube I use it all the time to look at how to do things.

And before anyone tells me John is north of me and south of some of you.....

Peter - alternative view - I'm lucky enough to own a car but also keen on using it to its full potential and keeping it ultra reliable ( 30 odd k miles of thrashing all over the place now) my alternative view on this is keep it standard and just buy the right good quality rubber tubing that is rated for unleaded and the pressure you need along with the right size hose clips. Sytec (FSE) are a good supplier.
Hard lines can be just as problematic and crack, the high end hose and fittings are great if you want to go to those lengths but not everyone does. I have both rubber hose and PTFE with screw on fittings on my car, but I'm just as confident with the rubber hose. Guess which one wept when first fitted ( not a rubber hose!)
The much quoted braided fuel line failures were all cheap hoses off eBay some not even rated for injection pressures. Buy the right stuff as used by manufacturers and it will last for years ( but I did change mine after 10 years just to be sure)

KISS People

Back on the original thread, looks like that hose may have been pinched a some point. (No not stolen:p)Jack maybe? If it was below the car, or pliers? Or even on original delivery in the post!

I did have a rear tyre let down once though, I suspect by kids...... Saboteuring barstewards

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Originally Posted by Sando

Back on the original thread, looks like that hose may have been pinched a some point.

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It wasn't cheap hose and it's been on for years without a problem... Not really in a position that it can be easily caught / snagged / pinched, so I'm at a loss as to what happened.
I can't really believe that someone would crawl under the car in Holmfirth and do this in broad daylight.
It's not impossible that it could have been done at Le Mans... I drank so much beer they could have done anything through the night (to me or the car) and I'd have been none the wiser, but again why would a bunch of car enthusiasts do this.... Just bad luck me thinks

I'm going to replace it all over the winter with as good hose as I can buy / find..

I'd like to apologise to anyone if I've caused offence, none was intended. Sometimes my building site humour can be a little rude or abrasive. Peter, I've sent you a pm. Please keep posting, all contributors are valued, whatever car you own. Can anyone point me in the direction if a foot in mouth smiley?

just had to edit this, my phone types things I don't.

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Originally Posted by The Slug

Peter don't take northern humour to serious. I think the common name may be Vaseline.

What John has said is true there are some good video descriptions on YouTube I use it all the time to look at how to do things.

And before anyone tells me John is north of me and south of some of you.....

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learnt mist of my machining from YouTube videos, that and breaking tipped lathe tools by too much feed speed. Ask Craig about my machining experience, the lathes tailstock passed his head once at a hundred miles an hour after the machine ejected it. Made a mess of my hand too!

Many of these lesser known hose manufacturers claim their rubber hoses are compatible with unleaded fuels etc, maybe they were a few years ago but the additives in the latest generation of fuels are causing many materials. Not just rubber hose, to break down. The only reasonably reliable thing to do is try a hose that's impervious to many of these liquids. At the moment, ptfe is the choice but that may change at some point. Goodridge tend to push their ptfe line, other manufacturers are doing ptfe only. The one issue with some ptfe hose is the flexibility, it won't do the tight bend radius's that you'd hope.

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Originally Posted by AndyH

It wasn't cheap hose and it's been on for years without a problem... Not really in a position that it can be easily caught / snagged / pinched, so I'm at a loss as to what happened.
I can't really believe that someone would crawl under the car in Holmfirth and do this in broad daylight.
It's not impossible that it could have been done at Le Mans... I drank so much beer they could have done anything through the night (to me or the car) and I'd have been none the wiser, but again why would a bunch of car enthusiasts do this.... Just bad luck me thinks

I'm going to replace it all over the winter with as good hose as I can buy / find..

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Hasn't the ethenol content of fuel in the UK changed from 5% to 10% this year?

I see that CBS is labelling some of its fuel hose as "ethanol proof"
http://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/rubber-fuel-hose

I think I bought the original hose from CBS.

I should point out that the hose shows no signs of deterioration, rot or any other degradation..... It's just got 2 holes in it !