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I need to do a bit of testing for my boost control, and there is only so much i can do on the road :rolleyes: so was looking for a track session - Blyton is on tis saturday (10th oct) so If the weather forecast holds out I plan to be there. Not going to book before thursday though, as I want to keep an eye on the weather...
Looking at the entry list its mainly Alfa's that will be there, so should be a good day.
Just posting incase anyone else is interested......
Attachment 8830
Hi,
Sorry Neil can't be there I'm on holiday - glad to hear your car is running again though.
rgds Bob
Neil If weather is good and track crowdy do not turn too much the pressure control knob !!! you need good and long run out before !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
The idea will be to work on the boost control - not maximum power! The Engine is mapped to 200kpa and I wont be going past that, not even if the Skyline wants to play! I know it will handle 240kpa, so I think that should be enough safety....Quote:
Originally Posted by LM mic
No problem Bob - its a very last minute thing anyway....
Ok so change of plans....... I wont be at blyton on Saturday...
I have decided to do a test day on Tuesday 13th instead. Makes more sense to book a test day so I can do what testing I like rather than to try and fit in the testing around other users on the track...
Neil this is amuch more ... "professional " decision ; so you could compare variuos settings and do all your test one after anothere musch more significant that going into a crowdy track day test !!!
yes definitely more professional- originally it was just me, so the track day would have done, but now I am taking my 'tuner' to do some proper testing- so it had to be a test day :) ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by LM mic
Had a good time testing yesterday at Blyton, there were only 2 other cars there, so basically when I was on track there was only me there, so I could do what I wanted to :)
It was wet in the morning, so that was a perfect opportunity to start testing the Traction control, naturally that involved a few spins, but a few adustments got that sorted, and its working well. Initially the control was done by ignition cut & retard, but found that controlling the throttle worked better & the ignition/fuel cut was left in only if the slip wasnt controlled by the DBW throttle changes.
It was also seen that the exhaust was flaming far too much (even for me). I had actually noticed that it was flaming a little too much when I had been driving the car at night- the flame was visible in the mirrors!!! The Over run fuel cut was adjusted & the flame size was reduced to a more reasonable size:rolleyes:
It was dry in the afternoon and we got the boost control set up really follow the target perfectly. Also added boost trims by gear.
Very happy with the car now:D:cool::D
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Hello Neil
well done !!
That's a really good improvment day and result is at the level the work you did !!
There are a few tweaks left for me to do, like setting temperature related rev limits for when the engine is cold or too hot, but thats just a case of filling in the tables...
Also I found the oil temp is a bit high (135-140C) so need to improve the cooling & 2 of the EGT thermocouples have failed, so I need to look at some better quality ones....
OH! and the rear tyres are now without tread!
Checked the plugs today & they all look good....
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Yes !! seems you got the right mixture !!
Oil temp is probably hight because you are using water to cool it ?
is the Turbo oil return cooled with same circuit ?
That can be too another reason to the hot oil temp
On our twin LM turbo ( years ago !) we used to have small air cooler for return oil from turbos
Exactly - those plugs were after the days running & a cool down lap - it also seems I have the right heat grade plugs :)
Yes oil is cooled by water, but the water temp was good @ 80-88C.. Turbo oil return is directly back to the sump - I think I just need an extra or bigger oil cooler. I use Miller CFS oil, which is rated for 125C with peak temp of 150C, so I am just ok with the temps, but would like to be down at 120-125C as a maximum.
Well been checking over the car today & decided to check the oil temp sensors....
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Before the test with the sensors in air - Stack gauge was on minimum (40C) ECU sensor showed 15.5C
With some warm water in the can --------- stack gauge read 62C & ECU 53C
With the water heated to Boiling with a flame, so at 100C, Stack read 107C & ECU 99.2
So at 100C the gauge is over reading by 7% & the ECU is under by 0.8%.
Based on those errors:
When the stack gauge read 138C, temp was 128C
When the ECU read 126C, temp was 127C.
So although high, the temp is in my acceptable range.. There is an option with the Laminova cooler to insert a partial restrictor in the central bypass flow to increase the flow through the cooling channels, so that is something I could try easily...
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Checking the oil pressure logs with the oil hot, it was 70psi @2500 rpm & 90psi at 6500rpm even at idle (1200rpm) it only dropped to 38psi. So all good therehttp://www.pistonheads.com/inc/images/smile.gif
I think the idea of blocking the Central core works in conjunction with running it from a smaller diameter feed. Best to do some calls on cross sectional area.
I have asked the makers if putting in a partial restrictor would cause an issue with flow/pressure drop, as my cooler installed as full flow & this was the reply:Quote:
Originally Posted by strat24v
"Thank you for using our products. I wouldn’t worry too much about the drop pressure on the coolant when putting in a restrictor, if you go to fully restricted - no by pass at all @ 20l/min dP = 0,019 bar, @ 30l/min dP = 0,133 bar
So assemble a partial restricted plug will not affect the coolant flow rate very much. "
What is the flow rate of your coolant pump? Maybe it's a brain fart on my part but your figures show a 7 times over pressure drop on a 10 litre/min flow change?
No idea what the flow rate of the system is, I have the Alfa mechanical pump, plus a Stewart components booster pump. The electric pump is rated at upto 55GPM, but I assume that is free flow & they dont publish a graph...Quote:
Originally Posted by strat24v
Below is the flow graph from the Laminova site - considering there is a pretty big hole in the middle of the cooler, there is quite a pressure drop with no restricter....
I will be doing some measuring and calculating before i decide to install a plug or not....
Attachment 8882
Neil
if you install aplug or watever restrictor you will have on the same time a drop of pressure or say flow efficiency that will not help in making a nice flow return oil .
When we had those type of issues on twin turbo Venturi Le Mans cars we managed to increase the number of oil coolers as water cooled ones are not helping much
on turbo engines ( specially Laminova ones !!!)
the restrictor would be in the water side to close partly the central bypass hole and force more flow through the cooling channels......Quote:
Originally Posted by LM mic
I don't think the pump would generate more pressure to force extra water through, I'd think you'd see just a reduction in flow.
Looking at a Laminova I have here, the annular outer ring has a cross sectional area of approx 190mm sq, the Centre bore 530mm sq mm.
I've seen those restrictors tried before Neil, be very cautious, as all it did was cause water overheating by restricting the flow too much.
You can get different size restriction holes in them though. I'd look at making something up to make a small change to the standard size and see the difference it makes, before going to the full pinhole turbulator or whatever it is they call them.
thats the one I saw just cause overheating.
Cheers
Rob
Rather than look at an attempt to get the water to cool the oil more, would it not be better to have more oil side area? Maybe add another small laminova cooler?
[ Maybe add another small laminova cooler?[/QUOTE]
Yes that could be the best idea to test ....
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Originally Posted by Sando
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Originally Posted by strat24v
Yes that could be the best idea to test ....[/QUOTE]Quote:
Originally Posted by LM mic
I dont really want to add another cooler It jut adds to the complexity of the plumbing - Maybe if I had one I would try it. The Best alternative would be to use a more efficient cooler like the ECD54 cooler.
But for now I will try a restrictor. I wont be going for anything like a full restrictor, I have ordered one of the partial restrictors as shown here, as they are cheap
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Just to get the sizes from so that i can make some at work, probably looking at trying 1 or 2mm reduction in the central bore... Oil temp is less than 130C, so I dont need much improvement.