Rear Wheel bearing play

I've been plagued with rear bearing play from day 1. Even with the hub nut tightened to FFT, there's still play. This caused rear wheel steer!!
I bit the bullet and removed both carriers to investigate further.....I discovered the bearings were slopping around in the carriers and could be pushed out by hand!!
These were new carriers and Whalley supplied bearings. Both were pressed in successfully and run for 1500 miles.
I'm posting them off to Andy @ Amtech in the new year to investigate further. Will update with results when known.

Gerry asked me to post the carriers to Andy his fabricator to investigate. See pics >>>> Attachment 1148Attachment 1149Attachment 1150Attachment 1151

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Originally Posted by strat6v

Problem stems from bearings being smaller than the carrier internal diameter. Seems many people are having this issue with hawk installations.

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The bearings supplied by John Whalley should be 72mm O/D.
If the upright I/D is over 72mm, that's where the problem might be.

I've got (72mm O/D) Vauxhall Astra bearings in mine now, and they're still ok.

Update... Carriers checked and are out of tolerence so will be replaced.
Gerry is supplying new rear uprights using Alfa bearings and hubs. Enables the use of the Alfa CV's and adapter removal...Will need new shaft too

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Originally Posted by ProtoTipo

If the upright I/D is over 72mm, that's where the problem might be..

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I guessed right then?

In deed so Chris. It was either going to be the carrier or bearing. Any thoughts on going to the Alfa set up?

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Originally Posted by Cadami

Any thoughts on going to the Alfa set up?

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I can't see an advantage Allen, unless you get more diameter at the outer end of the shaft (rather than the Beta 25 splines) Not that the Beta sized outer end (or Beta shafts and adapters) have been a problem to anyone?
You'd still need special shafts making up. All stock Alfa shafts are too long.

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Originally Posted by ProtoTipo

I can't see an advantage Allen, unless you get more diameter at the outer end of the shaft (rather than the Beta 25 splines) Not that the Beta sized outer end (or Beta shafts and adapters) have been a problem to anyone?

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It depends what you do with the car - the beta shafts have been known to break - Bernie broke some rallying & I broke some Sprinting with my last car & I dont think we are the only two to have broke them.. However I dont know if the Alfa ones are any better.......

Hi Neil,

Allen's asking what the pros are of using something bigger than a Beta/Delta hub and CV at the outer end.
I doubt there is one. Having same Alfa sized splines either end would make more sense, but you'd still need to have special shafts made up?
No mileage yet on any of these Alfa inner to Beta outer shafts, but I'm sure they'll be fine. You'd think they'd be better than Beta shafts with adapters?

There is a way of having larger splines on the outer end of a shaft and retaining the Beta/Delta hub and outer CV.
Jeff in the US found an outer CV that fits.

Allen,
Are these new Hawk uprights built to carry the 156/166 type cassette?

Think so Chris, I was multi tasking @ the time!. Are the 164/156/166 similar?? Gerry mentioned that since the Beta parts are now thin on the ground the changes incorporate Alfa parts. From memory, they use the Alfa larger bearings and Alfa front hubs; Alfa CV's inners / outers. Useful as you can use more of the donor parts when building from new. Just need to sort shafts!!

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Originally Posted by Cadami

Think so Chris, I was multi tasking @ the time!. Are the 164/156/166 similar?? Gerry mentioned that since the Beta parts are now thin on the ground the changes incorporate Alfa parts. From memory, they use the Alfa larger bearings and Alfa front hubs; Alfa CV's inners / outers. Useful as you can use more of the donor parts when building from new. Just need to sort shafts!!

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Ahh, I see?
In that case I can see an advantage.

Changing the bearings will be a doddle, and you'd have the option of either 5x98 (Alfa) and 5x108 (Original Stratos/Ferrari & Alfa 166) fitted to the same upright.
More Alfa donor parts usable for new kits too.

I'm pretty sure 164 hubs are not the same, but in any case 156 and 166 are now the cars to look at, donor wise.

This says 147 too on this ebay listing, but the TS 147s use the exact same hub as an Integrale EVO.
LB STR has this 156/166 cassette option too. (I think?)

156/166 hub

Thats not what my bearings look like, it only has a 3 point fixing, and looks deeper than the one in the photo.

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Originally Posted by The Slug

Thats not what my bearings look like, it only has a 3 point fixing, and looks deeper than the one in the photo.

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Maybe the 156/166 cassette idea hasn't happened yet on the kits, but it would be a very useful feature?
What hubs/flanges are you using then Ian?

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Originally Posted by ProtoTipo

Maybe the 156/166 cassette idea hasn't happened yet on the kits, but it would be a very useful feature?
What hubs/flanges are you using then Ian?

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Chris no point you asking me tech question....lol

I can show you mind

Attachment 1294

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Originally Posted by The Slug

Chris no point you asking me tech question....lol

I can show you mind

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Well, I don't know what it's from Ian, but it's a another type of cassette (three bolt fixing, rather than the 156/166 four bolt) with a five stud hub.
You must know the answer to my next question:
What PCD size of wheel can you fit? 5x108?

The 156/166 cassette is mentioned as a possible option on the LB website.

PCD you will need to ask Craig he is having the wheels made to suit but 5x110 rings a bell?

Ian,

The LB hubs are indeed 5 hole x 110 PCD (Vauxhall standard)

Dave

Sorry for the thread hijack but just to clarify..
For those opting to go with the LB wheels then we use the GM based drive flange which is a 5 stud but on 110pcd, for those who wish to opt for the 15" wheels which are available off the shelf in 5 x 98 or 5 x 108 there is an upright set which is machined to accept the 156/166 bearing Chris has highlighted above. With the Alfa set it is necessary to retain the drive flanges from the donor car if you have go this route (156 is 98 pcd, 166 is 108pcd) whereas the GM set come with integral flanges thus eliminating the need for the donor parts.

Regards

Craig

Gerry's upgrade uses the 164 bearings, hubs and CV's. Bearing is still a push in type.

Thanks to Gerry for supplying new carriers FOC. These use the 164 larger bearings etc so new project to update as outlined above. As a short term fix I've peppered the carrier bearing surface using a centre punch and fitted SKF bearings using locktight. Now they're a SNUG fit and won't be going anyway...