Lionel and NapierSports

Does anyone have any contact with Lionel from NapierSports.
His 2 mobiles appear dead and the landline just goes to message.
I have left messages, texts and emails with no answer either from Lionel or Sue the administrator.

In May Lionel was shipping a car to Australia and was short of 2 side windows. I 'gave' him my brand new un-opened ones as I still had a lot of building to do on the agreement he would sent me a new set.
5 months on and nothing.
I am going to have to go legal and file a claim against him as I dont know what else to do.

If anyone has any way of contacting him, please help or relay this message to him.

Steve



EDITED 14/10/11
I have recived my windows from Lionel.
They look good and are marked.
They are marked
VIII/B/M LEXAN
43R-001843
Plastics4Performance

There is a big E1 in a circle

You, and half the rest of the world too, I would'nt be surprised.
Are we talking about Corse side screens, or Glass side windows?
I can give you a contact to supply a new set of plastics, if he still has the moulds.
The sooner Lionel makes a tactical withdrawl from the Stratos scene the better.
I advised him as much years ago.
PM me for more if you wish.

I may be being unfair but all forms of contact have failed and I dont know what to do.

Lionel was going to send me E marked side windows.
I would like him to supply these or alternatively give me my money back.

I will then need new side windows of either glass or polycarbonate from whoever can provide them.
Anyone with the goods?
steve

A lot of people think they may be being unfair.
That should tell you something.
Do you have a Corse kit?
I have not seen a set of E-marked side windows for a Corse. That does not mean they don't exist (as my experience is getting on for a year old), but I would be surprised if they did.
I can give you a contact for a supplier of Perspex/Polycarbonate ones.
In fact, thinking about it, do you have a kit which came from South Wales?

I got an e-mail from him last Friday. If I read between the lines of what he wrote, his wife might be having some problems. I'm sure most of us will understand if he puts his family before business.

Lionel has pulled those sob stories before!!
In reality he's out of money till he pulls a fast one on his next victim!!!!

I refuse to be a victim of his and will correct all of the problems that should NOT be there.
I want this car!! ( He has shattered more than a few peoples dreams!)
Craig did the best thing in saying to himself " I CAN do better then that ". = Lister Bell

It cost him $1500 ot send me a windscreen to Texas because it missed the ship! but it has cost me a LOT more to correct the other things that are wrong with the chassis and bodywork!

If Sue is unwell - I wish her a swift recovery (but does not distract from my distain for Lionel's buisness ethics )

Rant over after another night of redoing stuff that should have been engineered out at source!

Do you have Brian's KIt?

Reading between the lines is about the only thing you can do, because you'll never get anything meaningful.
I'm still getting phone calls from dissatisfied parties realistically four years on from washing my hands of it!
Being "banned" from the fabricators, I was unable to offer any input into Nigel's chassis, when it emerged from there I saw it, knew immediately that there were problems (more than I was aware it has to be said), told Lionel about them, and he STILL sent it on. There was still enough time to prevent the same thing happening with another stateside customer.
I hope I still have as much energy and enthusiasm as Lionel does when I'm his age.
It's some common sense and ethics he's short of.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nigel

Do you have Brian's KIt?

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First, hello Nigel, one of the three Corse builders in the USA.

Not sure if you are asking me, but my kit was originally sold to Reed Herman here in the states, but it stated life as a Litton. I like your comment about "another night of redoing stuff that should have been engineered out at source!"


John, Paul's car is coming along great. I really like the idea of the Corse chassis and the Lister-Bell body.

Glad Paul's build is coming along well.
Yes, the LB bodywork was well worth the wait I'm sure.
Napiersports bodywork supply has been somwhat erratic to say the least.
What you have and what they currently supply are from two different sets of moulds.
I'd imagine you will unfortunately struggle when it comes to fitting the panels, tho' there are one or two tricks which may help you when the time comes, so let me know if I can give you the necessary pointers at that time.
Napiersport are now using the "original" Litton/CAE moulds which although much older still produce better panels if the laminator knows what he's doing. Still nowhere within a country mile of LB quality though.
Napiersports big problem is that despite their mantra that they ensure quality by manufacturing in carefully selected sub-contract suppliers, in reality they have had continuous problems in maintaining any relationship with those contractors, who have been largely uninterested in helping, and supply has therefore moved around the country from one abortive agreement to another. The results have been predictably largely disastrous.
I think Nigel is asking "Hollytree" which kit he has rather than yourself, Tipo.
If it is the one from South Wales, then I know it, and it's past problems very well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by john

If it is the one from South Wales, then I know it, and it's past problems very well.

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Is that the one that was for sale last year with all sorts cut off and welded on?

I could'nt answer that, Chris. Did'nt see the one you refer to. Where was it advertised? Not on the last forum?

It was on Fleabay IIRC

I doubt very much it's the same one then.
This is a Corse I chassis. The last to be built in Yorkshire, before fabrication started the "Tour of England".
It was the last one for a reason......

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nigel

Lionel has pulled those sob stories before!!
In reality he's out of money till he pulls a fast one on his next victim!!!!

I refuse to be a victim of his and will correct all of the problems that should NOT be there.
I want this car!! ( He has shattered more than a few peoples dreams!)
Craig did the best thing in saying to himself " I CAN do better then that ". = Lister Bell

It cost him $1500 ot send me a windscreen to Texas because it missed the ship! but it has cost me a LOT more to correct the other things that are wrong with the chassis and bodywork!

If Sue is unwell - I wish her a swift recovery (but does not distract from my distain for Lionel's buisness ethics )

Rant over after another night of redoing stuff that should have been engineered out at source!

Do you have Brian's KIt?

---

I bought the part built car from Brian and am now working hard to try and complete it.
Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by john

Glad Paul's build is coming along well.
Yes, the LB bodywork was well worth the wait I'm sure.
Napiersports bodywork supply has been somwhat erratic to say the least.
What you have and what they currently supply are from two different sets of moulds.
I'd imagine you will unfortunately struggle when it comes to fitting the panels, tho' there are one or two tricks which may help you when the time comes, so let me know if I can give you the necessary pointers at that time.
Napiersport are now using the "original" Litton/CAE moulds which although much older still produce better panels if the laminator knows what he's doing. Still nowhere within a country mile of LB quality though.
Napiersports big problem is that despite their mantra that they ensure quality by manufacturing in carefully selected sub-contract suppliers, in reality they have had continuous problems in maintaining any relationship with those contractors, who have been largely uninterested in helping, and supply has therefore moved around the country from one abortive agreement to another. The results have been predictably largely disastrous.
I think Nigel is asking "Hollytree" which kit he has rather than yourself, Tipo.
If it is the one from South Wales, then I know it, and it's past problems very well.

---

I bought my kit from Brian in S Wales. Can someone enlighten me on the problems. Help!
Steve

S Wales car.
The one I bought from Brian is in very good shape with zero cuts and welds and has been put together very well.
The loom was in, the chassis rolling and the moving body panels losely fitted, though the main section bonded and done very nicely.
Steve

I have managed to contact Lionel.
He abandoned the 0870 number because he said people did not like calling it as they thought Lionel was making money out of it and they were being overcharged.
He lost his mobile last week.
After lots of emails and messages he has arranged for plastics4performance to send me a set of side windows direct.
Steve

Steve,
I'm sending you a PM.

That's an "S" chassis, I believe Gary?
That's the one design which has just about a full set of drawings. When I checked through them last the only detail drawing missing from the whole pack was a front bulkhead detail.
All the drawings were signed SG, so obviously date from Steve Greenwoods tenure of the project.
Problem is with the "I" chassis, which never seems to have had a full set of drawings.
There are bound to be difficulties in passing fabrication around unless there are a full set of drawings!
When I was involved it was necessary to actually be there with the fabricator to iron out details.
This was how the first 24valve chassis went together, and the modifications were all presented in Autocad.
Drawing work, incidentally, which has still not been paid for fully three years down the line.
That first 24 valve chassis went together very well. You may have seen pictures of it built-the yellow and green Olio FIAT style car in Italy.

Phew! That's a relief.

There may be one or two folks who think I may be being a little harsh. Perhaps motivated by personal frustration and should not air grievances in public.
I apologize if that is so, BUT, be aware, further information has come to my notice that anyone either currently, or in future, doing business with Napiersport is likely to find it damaging to their financial health.
I'm not going to say anything further, not because I'm frightened of doing so, but because I'm wary of offending anyone's sensibilities.
PM me if you want specific information.
NB. my name was removed from the Directors list in 2008.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by john

There may be one or two folks who think I may be being a little harsh. Perhaps motivated by personal frustration and should not air grievances in public.
I apologize if that is so, BUT, be aware, further information has come to my notice that anyone either currently, or in future, doing business with Napiersport is likely to find it damaging to their financial health.
I'm not going to say anything further, not because I'm frightened of doing so, but because I'm wary of offending anyone's sensibilities.
PM me if you want specific information.
NB. my name was removed from the Directors list in 2008.

---

John,
I Have sent you a PM.

Can anyone who has a copy of PPC (the one with Neil's new car on the front) confirm to me that there was a substantial, further advertisement inside for the Corse project " For Sale" by Napiersport?
If it was in the classifieds I might have suggested looking in the section headed "dodgy business opportunities", but I have been told it was an expensive spread advert.

quarter page saying project for sale, Super stratos corse. The only all wishbone stratos replica on the market today. Refer to website for more details.

All proposals considered.

There's an advert on page 14 - "Project for Sale! Super Stratos Corse - The only all wishbone Stratos Replica on the market today. Refer to website for more details. (website - not going to promote it!) All proposals considered"

Guy

I could stretch to ten bob if you fancy going halves....

More smoke and mirrors? If you go to the web site this is what you get:-

SuperDuper.com is under construction.
If you are looking for an established website, please try your search again.

For more information about the domain name SuperDuper.com
please send a message to name.inquiry@live.com

Haha!! That was me that changed that website address, just following Guys lead!!

I saw Hugh Carson a couple of weeks ago.
He said he had not heard from Lionel for months and months and was not aware that Lionel had even mentioned selling the Corse project.
I don't know about smoke and mirrors, but there is something "not quite right" about this.
Lionel wrote to me on 30th March, whining because I had sent a letter to his accountants on behalf of a client to whom Lionel owes as good as £8K.
You simply cannot take someones money, undertake to restore their car and then not communicate with them.
The guy I'm talking about did not even know where his car was and Lionel was not answering his emails or phone calls. What would any of us think?
This on top of a county court judgement against him for another £7k plus in respect of work he had had done and sold on without paying his invoices.
And then he goes and puts the project up for sale? He stated to me in the letter that the Corse project has never been owned by Napiersport. I guess if anyone owns it then it's Hugh, but he does'nt know it's being sold and has never had a penny off Lionel in all the time Napiersport have been in existence.
I sent him a statutory demand under the insolvency act back in April to which he had to reply by the 9th May.
No prizes for guessing what response I got.
So we can get a winding up order against him at any time now.
Hence my warning. He ain't got no assett's. They are ours anytime we like.

I hope these are not the molds that were used to make my body kit.

Don't know.......... but I do know that when rebuilding an engine the seller doesnt fit a full set of piston rings correctly to pistons !!.... also caused another Strato's replica to catch fire due to bad wiring !!.............. enough said !

Are they his to sell?

Yes, these moulds were made by Tony and are his to sell.
These are the moulds which produced the bodywork for Stuart, Mick, Hollytree and Nigels car aswell as Corky's. There were others too. Seven pulls maybe about right.
They were made from the CAE kit which was supplied by Lionel to Andrew Dearing once it was built.
Some may suggest that this move was less than ethical, but that's not for me to say....
I don't want to diss them unfairly but the original CAE/Litton moulds were just as capable of producing decent enough panels as these moulds were. Trouble with the Centauri (Tony Favarin) panels were that they were always laid up very substantially and a degree of flexibility is pretty desirable when you want to get it all lined up on the chassis nicely.
Napiersport found that the cost of these panels was rising steadily and that the aforementioned flexibility issues dictated that the CAE moulds came back into play after being recovered from an abortive agreement for use in Europe.
The CAE moulds are now in Yorkshire and are being held by the guy who is owed money backed up by a CCJ as mentioned previously. These CAE moulds are the ones quoted in the Napiersport advert for the Corse project for sale.
Complicated or what?
This is why we are holding off with the winding up petition because Lionel does not even have possession of the moulds which he is offering to sell in the project he does not own. Enough said?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tipo158

I hope these are not the molds that were used to make my body kit.

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They are, Corky, but I would not worry over it. CAE panels will fit just as well, and you could always use LB panels too with a bit of work (to your existing ones!!).
Maybe all you existing owners could get together and buy these moulds up?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by john

They are, Corky, but I would not worry over it. CAE panels will fit just as well, and you could always use LB panels too with a bit of work (to your existing ones!!).
Maybe all you existing owners could get together and buy these moulds up?

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Not worried, I just wouldn't purchase them if they were, the fit of my body is terrible. Whatever epoxy or resin was used was terrible also, the shell is brittle and cracks easily. I would love to get a complete set of LB panels, but distance and costs are keeping me from doing that. Maybe if those CAE molds were available.

I can put you in touch with the guy holding the CAE moulds. You might be better off with fresh panels and so gelcoat, but you can do a lot of remedial work to those panels you have for the same price. You have to factor in freight too.
Those panels you have were laid up and shipped in 2006 if I remember correctly.
With no paint protection in all that time they could well have degraded. They have had four owners in the States before they got to you.