Has anybody had a replacement transponder key made for a Alfa 156? I'm not having any success. Apparently 2000 registration seems from the people I have enquired off, to be a problem.
In hope,
Robin
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Has anybody had a replacement transponder key made for a Alfa 156? I'm not having any success. Apparently 2000 registration seems from the people I have enquired off, to be a problem.
In hope,
Robin
Don't know about the 156 but the 159 is a dealer only job with old keys not being reprogrammable, until recently. There's a guy in Scotland who's found a way around them, he's also done the Halo light kit for the 159 for me so maybe he can help? Trouble is, for the 159, he needs all the keys, key reader and body computer to do it.
Worth a try though? Facebook Project Halo UK, Samir Sarwar is the bloke you're looking for.
Guy
Oddly enough I've been messing about with this system for the last couple of weeks on a rig I've lashed up.
Attachment 16326
As i understand it, I think there are (at least) two approaches depending on whether you have the 5 digit pin code.
If you have the code (which i dont) there is a process to add new, pre-coded transponder keys which can be initiated using software like AlfaOBD via a properly wired OBD connector which talks to the immobiliser box and triggers the key learn process.
If you don't have the code you may be able to reverse-engineer it by dumping data from an eeprom in the immobiliser box.
In theory this data can also be used to pre-code a blank immo chip to work directly without having to be "added" as a new key.
I'm working through this process and have dumped the immobiliser eeprom from my rig but the software that is supposed to tell me the code is not giving a valid code. As this part of the process isn't giving me the right answer I haven't tried to "burn" a new chip from this hex dump but I guess I will need to try it to be sure.
Most pictures I have seen of the "code2" box show a green label but my test rig one has a white label.
Did the people you spoke to give specifics about why 2000 registration is difficult ?
Hopefully it isn't something to do with the white label immo box but I've ordered a green label box off eBay to see if I get different results.
If anyone knows more about this I would be interested to hear it.
As per usual, the wiring diagram in eLearn has an error in it.
Cheers,
Graham
Graham, sorry to be slow coming back on this. The only feedback we were given was that around the year 2000 Alfa used a different Chip in 156 keys that seems not to be receptive to being cloned, and re the Code Box, mine has a Green label.
Don't know if this is any help?
Robin
Thanks Robin, so far I've had much more success with the green label box than the white label.
I've been able to extract the 5 digit code from the eeprom and use the code with Alfaobd software to logon to it and to add a new key chip.
What I am going to try next is to flash a new key chip using the eeprom dump to see if that works without needed to be manually added. This seems to be what most locksmiths do when they want you to send them the code box
E.g https://www.remotekeys.co.uk/alfa-ro...iser-1998-2001 (no connection with the company but I was considering sending them my code box to get an extra key made)
So far I haven't been able to extract the code from the white labelled box and I've also got sidetracked into learning how to reset an ecu to "pair" it with a different code box and keys. Never too late to learn new skills!
Graham
Graham, thank you for the explanation, but whilst I basically understand the logic, I am of an age that doesn't really understand the terminology or the technique, but I'm sure you will resolve the conundrum somehow. My ability on electronics that uses chips and things is zilch!!!
Robin.
Graham - like Robin I dont understand what exactly you are doing with the electronics but if you develop a means of mapping new keys to an Alfa codebox that would be very useful. As these code boxes get older that would be a useful facility within the Club. (by the way , I also have a green label code box - which as I recall was manufactured in Australia !)
Peter
Does that mean it has to be installed upside down to work??
I've just broken a Fiat Ducato van. It has exactly the same key code reader as my CF2 year 2000 Alfa.
The box is yellow though.
What's the chances of that working? I've stuck it on one side for further investigation. In a few months time.....
Has it got one of these John?:Quote:
Originally Posted by john
https://www.bielstein.com/Water-expa...nk-Stratos-Gr4
It doesn't look familiar but then again I wasnt taking much notice. I'll have a look tomorrow. It will be in the skip!
I think the yellow plastic boxes are the earlier "code" immobiliser from 155 era cars so may not be useable with a "code2" era ECU. There is also a later blue box that I think is CF3 era ECUs.
The immobiliser code boxes pair with the ECU the first time the ECU is powered up and once an ECU has paired with a code box it can't be used with a different code box (unless you can reset the ECU back to factory fresh "virgin" - which I'm trying next).
The code box stores the list of valid keys and when you turn on the ignition the ECU asks the code box if a valid key is present, if the code box says "yes" and the ECU recognises the code box as the one it is paired with it then allows the engine to start.
As I understand it the two ways of adding keys are;
1. Use the 5 digit car security code (on a credit card) and software like AlfaOBD to add a new pre-prepared key to the list stored in the code box (needs OBD port wired to both ECU and immobiliser box - dealer method) or
2. Extract the list of valid keys from the code box memory chip and burn a new blank transponder to match a valid key already in the list (needs eeprom reader and specialised transponder coding hardware & software - locksmith method).
I'm a mechanical engineer, not electronics so this is a bit out of my comfort zone but I'm getting there.
Graham, had a look at my code box today, Green Label, made in Australia!!! Don't know if that adds to the scheme of things.
Robin
Did a bit more tinkering on my "green label" immobiliser box today - i used the data dumped from the box memory to burn a new pre-coded transponder and it looks like it works without any need to add it to the stored key table.
As I'd previously manually added a new transponder the "add new key" process wiped all the old transponder key records (the box didn't come with any keys) so there was only 1 valid key stored.
The software appears to have produced an exact duplicate of the key that was already stored in the key table and both key transponders appear to work, but I can't be sure until I can get this immobiliser box paired with an ECU and get a "OK to start engine" message from the ECU.
Graham, are we close to a 'Eureka' moment.
Robin
Blimey! It's all beyond me , but it sounds promising.
John, I'm with you on this, in fact I'm about 6 fathoms down.
Well for you and me Robin that is WAY over our heads!��
I'm reasonably confident I could produce a working transponder chip for the green labelled box if I was emailed a dump from the memory chip. Also a good probability I can extract the 5 digit security code if needed. Only way to confirm it would be to try one.
I may pick up another off eBay to prove my technique.
Still trying to translate that knowledge to the white label box which looks like it stores the codes in the same location but uses a different algorithm (or substitution cipher) to translate it into the actual pin code
Graham, are you talking about the chip in the key here, and how do you create a 'xxxx' via email? It all sounds very complex, and that I would need very technical assistance to achieve success !!
Robin
I think you ought to edit your question before Norm arrives on scene!Quote:
Originally Posted by Longtimefan
That very comment means I don't have to say a thing... ;)
The process involves reading data from a memory chip in the immobiliser box. It's simple enough to do but does require specialised equipment. That's why the people who do this professionally have a mail order approach where customers send them the immobiliser box. I didn't like the idea of mine getting lost or damaged in the post so would have gone with a local option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Longtimefan
Mmmm, interesting. The donor for my project came with 2 keys, but one was the valet key, so pretty useless as it stands. If I could make it a working key that would be great.
Did you DIY the data dump from the CODE box? If so, would you share the details so I can replicate it please?? I have the green label version too.
...and of course, you can guess the next question!! Would you be able to program me a transponder given the data?
I suppose another route would be if it’s possible to clone the good key directly?
I'm happy to have a go a burning a new transponder key chip - the blanks only cost a couple of quid so its no real loss if it doesn't work.
The hardware I have for burning new key transponder chips can read existing keys but for some reason can't copy they directly and can only produce new transponders using the data dump from the immobiliser box.
The process to extract the data is reasonably straight forward and I found it on one of the Alfa forums
The required data is stored in the 93c56 eeprom chip (in the blue square), and as I don't fancy removing it to read it and then re-soldering it afterward I am reading it with it in place on the board. When reading the data in this way it is suggested you short-out the oscillator crystal next to it (in the red square). As the crystal legs stick out quite a bit I just rest them on a coin while reading the eeprom. Photo is of a white labelled box but the circuit board layouts are the same.
Attachment 16440
To read the data from the eeprom I am using a reasonable cheap-and-cheerful USB eeprom programmer hooked up to my laptop and a test-clip (for soic8 format eeproms). Just make sure the eeprom programmer is compatible with 93 series eeproms as the really cheap ones may not be.
Attachment 16441
When the hex data has been successfully read from the eeprom (in 16 bit mode) it should look like this screen shot.
The 5 digit security code is contained in the string of characters I've highlighted (needs to be decoded using what looks to be a substitution cypher rather than a calculation).
Attachment 16439
Hopefully that all makes sense.
Fantastic, thank you for all that - makes perfect sense.. I've just ordered the same programmer, once it makes it's way from China I'll get busy.
I'll bother you again once I have that data dump done. To confirm, I have the green label CODE box. I presume it has at least 2 key codes stored, but if I end up with a clone of the one I have, or 'the other one' that's all good, as long as I have a spare.
Presumably the transponder burner won't clone existing keys for the obvious reasons!! Shame though, it would make life simple wouldn't it.
Anyone with my level of security paranoia should probably avoid posting their data dump directly to the forum so you may prefer to PM when you've extracted the data or if he want any tips on getting the eeprom reader hardware and software "up and running".
Anyway, I think I have now emerged from the slight detour of trying to pair an ECU to an Immobiliser box.
Compared with reading and writing data to the Immobiliser box chip, this one is more like "open heart surgery" and I understand why the companies that do this professionally all have photos like this on their websites.
Attachment 16476
But after several hours of faffing about I finally managed to read the data off the processor, modify it back to "factory fresh mode" and write it back to the processor.
I hooked the ECU up to one of the "green label" immobiliser boxes I've been messing with, powered them both up with one of the key transponder chips I burned a couple of weeks ago, and the ECU is reporting "Engine start permitted".
So it looks to have successfuly "paired" with the Code box and the Code box recognised the key chip as valid.
I feel like I've earned a nice cup of tea and chocky biscuit.
Cheers,
Graham
Well done that man! Treat yourself to two biscuits.
Yes - very impressive ! (i hope you are able to duplicate your method and maybe write up some instructions for those able to understand this stuff!)
I'll rewrite all this as an article (or two) before I forget any of the details.
For reference, close up of the immobiliser box connectors highlighting the release latches
Attachment 16477
My programmer arrived today (very prompt considering...), just waiting for the SOIC8 adapter now.
.....still waiting for the SOIC8 adapter at the moment. Keen to move this along so hoping it turns up soon.
Yay, adapter arrived, PM sent Robin.
This is the CODE unit I'm working with:
Attachment 16518
So far, so good - it looks identical to one of the green label boxes I've been tinkering with.
PM now sent to the right person.....
Doh!
Quick update on this. After a couple of minor glitches, sorted with help from Graham, we have success. The first issue was with me using the wrong format for extracting the data, easy fix, the second was just how picky the system is about the orientation and position of the chip in relation to the reader coil, again solved with info from Graham. I had an extra twist to work through as it turned out my spare key already had a chip in it, which was confusing things no end. After removing the non-working chip and putting the new one in it’s place I now have a proper spare key. Final step for me is to print something to hold the butchered remnants of the original spare key! I had to take a hacksaw to it to get the transponder out, it being a solid moulded key rather than the hollow shell ‘remote’ type.
Attachment 16543
Attachment 16542
I found an online source for new keys for a sensible price and was looking to get one if I’d not been able to get my existing spare to work.
https://www.car-keys-online.com/afte...156-gt15r.html They offer keys for both 156 and 166, pretty reasonably priced too considering.
A huge ’thank you’ to Graham for all his hard work getting this issue sorted out and for helping me get a working spare key.
OK Robin, you’re next! Pop round whenever you like and we can begin the process by reading the CODE box on your car.
...and the final product. Not exactly elegant, but it'll work for an emergency spare key. I suppose I could print a car-shaped body for it? :)
Attachment 16556
Attachment 16557
It's official, Graham is a genius, they work!!!!!