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Thread: Chairman's Rant, July 2019

  1. #11
    SEC Member ChrisCar6's Avatar
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    Re: Chairman's Rant, July 2019

    As one of the weird people in a shabby shed who just nailed any old pile of ex-scrapyard bits together, I think the current prices reflect the product of 'kits' of the 2010- era. What the value of older products are is of more interest, but so few of them sell that I don't know if we'll aver get a good agreement.

  2. #12

    Re: Chairman's Rant, July 2019

    I'm definitely in the "Labour of Love" camp, the value is irrelevant.

  3. #13
    SEC Member red5's Avatar
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    Re: Chairman's Rant, July 2019

    Nice ‘rant’ Norm, forum needs a lively debate and nothing like money to get people interested.

    When I placed an order for a LB, it was always the challenge of the build that interested me. Originally my thoughts were if I lost 10% when I sold it, then so be it.
    It’s a hobby, much like watching football, making model trains, sailing etc whatever floats your boat!

    In the two years I spent building, interest in the cars grew rapidly, even though the traditional kit car scene has declined considerably, the interest in replicas seems to have risen.
    At Stoneleigh this year, barring the sevens, there were more MR2 ‘Ferrari’ replicas than anything else. Before I get flamed Im not putting Hawks or Lister Bells in the same category as the MR2s.

    I think most on this forum could have a good guess at what my build costs were, when I originally thought about selling I had a figure in mind and happened to speak to Norm and Richard at Phils garage day who both convinced me I could get more.
    Short story being I perhaps could have got more but I did achieve what I believe to be a good price, in a short time.
    When you look at what LB sell turnkey cars for the price I got is comparable, argument being Lister Bell sell too cheap!

    My personal opinion is (regarding value, not the joys of ownership) when asking 60k/70k/80k for these cars, what can you buy in comparison?
    While there are people with enough interest and available cash to buy them, the rarity of a Stratos replica will always demand a premium. There are plenty of cars you can buy for upwards of £50k with the rarity factor and those cars will always retain a market value.

    I wonder in 10 years’ time, when the number of available Stratos replicas has increased and the number of customers has decreased, will they still retain such residuals?
    Last edited by red5; 10-07-2019 at 19:00.

  4. #14
    SEC Member red5's Avatar
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    Re: Chairman's Rant, July 2019

    I would like to add that I achieved the price I did for my car thanks to the help from Craig and Lydia at LB for which I am very grateful.
    When I originally advertised the car I had numerous enquiries offering me in the region of £40k, the genuine enquiries for the asking price were far less. I don't believe I would have sold the car so quickly if LB hadn't offered to put it on their stand at Stoneleigh.

  5. #15
    SEC Member renmure's Avatar
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    Re: Chairman's Rant, July 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyGuyton View Post
    From everyone I've spoken to, the 'labour of love' build is thankfully still alive and well. The value of the finished car can only help with the 'man maths'.
    Most of my petrolhead mates know I'm doing the Stratos thing. All are hugely interested and pestering for updates but apart from a couple of weirdo mates who have built their own Ultimas in their posh garages, none of them would ever consider building a kitcar. They are all perfectly sane, sensible and normal folk like myself who already have proper hobbies like watching footie on telly, growing turnips in the allotment and a bit of gardening in summer and while we/they want the car, they want it NOW or as close to now as possible. A bit like the chap who bought Nick's car on the spot and put it next to his Miura.

    IMHO some companies have moved the game on so far that while the semantics between kit-car and component-car/recreation/whatever are fairly subtle the final product is almost aimed at a different audience and in time (perhaps even the near future) there will be a substantial shift from producing kits to producing turn-key cars. The latest fully speced Ultima RS is a £100/£110k pile of boxes or a £140/£150k turn-key car. I recon more folk will want the car than the kit. At £55k/£60k/£65k/£Head-in-the-sand£k I recon one of the Stratos companies must be about the same tipping point.

    I'm not looking to lose money on mine. If I was I would have got a yellow one and put blue wheels on it (only kidding) but I'm sure if I ever sell it that it will sell to someone who had no interest in ever building one.

    Quote Originally Posted by red5 View Post
    When you look at what LB sell turnkey cars for the price I got is comparable, argument being Lister Bell sell too cheap!
    Yup. I guess so.

  6. #16
    SEC Member Guy Mayers's Avatar
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    Re: Chairman's Rant, July 2019

    Can't say I'm entirely comfortable with the prices people are quoting for cars at the moment but it was that that helped me make up my mind that building the second one made some sort of sense at the time!

    I'd add that prices for all replicas appear to have been climbing in recent years. I was offered £80k at Race Retro 18 months ago, not entirely sure how serious he was and I didn't want to find out. There are people out there with the cash to buy the right car. Increasingly that seems to be the older cars too where they are legally registered. It apparently helps with the importation of cars if they have historic status? And if you want to go into Europe or the USA having LHD is a definite advantage. Unfortunately there are also cars out there selling for decent money that aren't properly registered and that's causing people real issues with registration outside the UK. I'm aware that the car sold at auction recently (Volumex powered Hawk circa £36k) went to Japan and they might have an expensive ornament on their hands. As always, buyer beware.

    Guy

  7. #17
    SEC Member red5's Avatar
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    Re: Chairman's Rant, July 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by renmure View Post
    IMHO some companies have moved the game on so far that while the semantics between kit-car and component-car/recreation/whatever are fairly subtle the final product is almost aimed at a different audience and in time (perhaps even the near future) there will be a substantial shift from producing kits to producing turn-key cars. The latest fully speced Ultima RS is a £100/£110k pile of boxes or a £140/£150k turn-key car. I recon more folk will want the car than the kit. At £55k/£60k/£65k/£Head-in-the-sand£k I recon one of the Stratos companies must be about the same tipping point.
    Totally agree. I'm sure for the manufacturer there is far more profit in turnkey cars than supplying kits + a lot less hassle. With a turnkey, the manufacturer is sat watching match of the day, drinking wine on a Saturday evening and not answering emails to idiots like me explaing how various parts fit together!

  8. #18
    SEC Member Griff's Avatar
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    Re: Chairman's Rant, July 2019

    Comrade Chairman, the other thing to figure in to the driving experience; is the fact that you don't need to be doing a gazillion miles an hour to enjoy yourself, and the absence of driver 'aids' makes it so much more involving. As to values, the rise, it is probably reflective of the general increase in the classic car scene, and probably just as importantly the attention to detail that most self builds demonstrate now. For most of us, it will not make a blind bit of difference, because their is no intention to separate from the object of our attentions (unless we are talking about 'management'), but as she points out all she has to do is shout in the general direction of the automotive temple, to know where I am.
    Last edited by Griff; 10-07-2019 at 20:07.

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    Re: Chairman's Rant, July 2019

    Well Norm, you certainly know how to grab attention!
    Your musings are very welcome though and have generated some great debate already. I am still c13 months away from "C Day" - that's Chassis day and I am so much looking forward to the challenge of the build. Doing loads of grubby stuff with Donor engine at the moment, engine stripped to bare block and loads of cleaning, before starting rebuild.
    Guys, thanks, great stuff coming out of Norms "rant" with the recent sales/prices having helped placate Mrs P with my proposed project.
    Cheers!

  10. #20
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    Re: Chairman's Rant, July 2019

    Norm I agree fully with your 'despair' relating to the way cars are going. For 'sports cars' manufacturers are focused on figures. Modern cars are insanely fast and full of gadgets and computers that means the average joe can claim they hit 0-60 in 4.5 secs and go it up to well over 160mph. A BMW 1 Series (M140) has performance that would put many a (possibly pre-2010) Ferrari and Lambo to shame.

    What I find interesting is a spate of videos appearing on youtube.

    The current cop of 'tubers are courted by the big brands and spend their days driving round in supercars supplied my manufacturers as they are seen as the new 'journalists'. They are spoiled and get to drive cars most people can only dream of driving. However an increasing number of them are doing videos in older cars and the interesting thing is how they rave about the involvement. Even they are starting to realise that you can't use the performance of modern cars on the road. They are starting to see the attraction of a simple car, with a manual box and no driver aids. They say you can enjoy the performance and use all of it. It's about having fun driving rather than being in a missile that will bend your mind with speed but is ultimately very clinical and detached.

    But having said this people who like driving as an activity for fun are disappearing. Cars are now a utility that you pay for like gas/elec/internet/phone etc. They are functional items that allow you to be mobile. We have friends with 3 kids, all over 18 and none of them have passed their tests or show any interest in it. What was a rite of passage in my day now seems to be something that's not needed, especially if you live in a city.

    As someone who has always been into cars it's all a bit depressing.....
    Last edited by LPH_UK; 11-07-2019 at 00:23.

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