Results 1 to 10 of 29

Thread: Help needed with brakes

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    SEC Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Tralee, Ireland.
    Posts
    59
    Rep Power
    9

    Help needed with brakes

    Hi All,
    Just need advise on brakes on my Litton, Currently I am using Alfa 164 (24V) front calipers (I think they are 57mm piston) and I am using a pedal box set up, using 0625 cylinders both back and front. ( Lancia Beta rear calipers) I do not know the pedal ratio, and braided hoses thru out the car.
    Problem is I cannot get the front brakes to work, It is like I am not putting enough pressure on the front brakes even if I adjust the bias totally to the front. Is it possible the .625 cylinder is too small for the Alfa calipers.
    Normally with this type set up you would have a solid pedal but I still have travel in mine, I have tried many different ways bleeding the brakes and I think (or maybe not) I do have them fully bled ! But at this stage I am totally confused,
    I would love to move away front this set up and get a four pot calipers but the offset on the wheels limits its. What calipers do fit the Alfa set up anyone know ?
    Any help appreciated
    Thanks,
    Gerard

  2. #2
    SEC Member ChrisCar6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    South of the North bit
    Posts
    1,648
    Rep Power
    25

    Re: Help needed with brakes

    I don't have access to my data until I'm home next week, but I'll post then. I doubt if you have enough rear effort.
    I have the 164 fronts, Wilwood 4-pot rears and a dual servo. Yes, a real mongrel which will have many grimacing! This is on a Hawk which only has a 4:1 (IIRC) pedal ratio. I can't remember my master cylinder size offhand as I've been through several.

  3. #3
    SEC Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Tralee, Ireland.
    Posts
    59
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: Help needed with brakes

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisCar6 View Post
    I don't have access to my data until I'm home next week, but I'll post then. I doubt if you have enough rear effort.
    I have the 164 fronts, Wilwood 4-pot rears and a dual servo. Yes, a real mongrel which will have many grimacing! This is on a Hawk which only has a 4:1 (IIRC) pedal ratio. I can't remember my master cylinder size offhand as I've been through several.
    Thank you,
    Forgot to say I do not have a servo fitted

  4. #4
    SEC Member ChrisCar6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    South of the North bit
    Posts
    1,648
    Rep Power
    25

    Re: Help needed with brakes

    Alfa 164 24v front calipers are indeed 57mm. Alfa 164 M/C 0.937” 23 mm / Bendix OE 22.2mm
    Beta rear caliper = 34mm = 907sqmm

    Hawk brake pedal ratio is 4:1

    Bigger M/C = less travel/more effort required

    My M/C setup is - 0.75" front 0.7” rear with dual servo https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/...te-brake-servo

    FRONT 164 24v floating 57mm
    Piston area 5104 sq.mm.
    Pad area 50sq.cm 7.75 sq.in
    Disc diameter 284mm

    REAR setup willwood 4pots https://www.wilwood.com/calipers/Cal...0-8729&appid=0
    3 sq.in. pistons 19.35 sq.cm.
    pad area 5 sq in 32.26 sq.cm
    disc diameter 284mm



    Balance depends a bit on your front/rear weight split, but using figures from other Strats, for the front and rears to lock at the same time at 0.9G negative acceleration the ideal ratio should be 52% front and 48% rear.
    I think you have much more on the front - what diameter discs do you have on the back? I am sure someone can come up with the mathematical equations for integrating M/C, caliper piston area/ disc diameter into simple model, but I relied on Martin Kift!
    Last edited by ChrisCar6; 16-07-2019 at 23:29.

  5. #5
    SEC Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Cheshire
    Posts
    1,703
    Rep Power
    26

    Re: Help needed with brakes

    Has Martin Kifts information disappeared for good?

  6. #6
    Site Supporter ProtoTipo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Outer Mongolia
    Posts
    3,147
    Rep Power
    40

    Re: Help needed with brakes

    Quote Originally Posted by john View Post
    Has Martin Kifts information disappeared for good?
    Yes John,
    As far as I know, he was never a member of this (new) forum.
    I kept a very lengthy email message from him, regarding the set up and use of the Honda engined Hawk rally car.
    There's nothing on brakes within that. That car had 6R4 discs all round with no servo.

  7. #7
    SEC Member Lancialulu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Colchester
    Posts
    651
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Help needed with brakes

    My Shades has a pair of 5/8” mcs and 4pot AP racing calipers on AP ventilated 300mm disks front and back. Hard pads and no servo. Admittedly the balance bar is at max priority to the front but I am very happy now with the balance under braking.

    If you dont know, it is important to set the mc push rods so the bar it parallel to the bulkhead (or orthogonal to the push rods) under max brake pedal pressure.
    Last edited by Lancialulu; 17-07-2019 at 10:14.

Similar Threads

  1. What Brakes to use
    By manta356 in forum Brakes
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 26-09-2018, 22:46
  2. 156 Brakes
    By Martin Crikey in forum Brakes
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-01-2015, 22:46
  3. Uprated Brakes
    By turbonutter in forum Brakes
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 18-09-2014, 19:22
  4. Corse I Brakes
    By turbonutter in forum Brakes
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 22-02-2013, 12:50
  5. Brakes Hoses
    By Martin Crikey in forum Brakes & Suspension
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 19-02-2012, 21:47

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •