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Thread: Chairman's Rant - October 2019

  1. #21
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    Re: Chairman's Rant - October 2019

    Thanks Ade, vote of confidence appreciated! And yeah, it's hard to know what to do to keep everyone happy. Although that "voyeur" comment's given me an idea for the next AGM...hmmmm. We'd deffo need a bigger marquee to take every member plus pals...

  2. #22
    SEC Member renmure's Avatar
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    Re: Chairman's Rant - October 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Normb666 View Post

    are there really only 7 Ultimas in the country? How does the factory keep going??
    Well, remeber THE country is Scotland. There might be a couple of others somewhere but if so, they're not very active on Social Media or FB. The 7 of us are all in the FB group and all in a separate Wotsapp group for arranging random meet-ups and runs. It works well.



    How does the factory keep going? Well, interestingly (perhaps) this ties in a wee bit with the cost / values thing in your rant(s). They do very well indeed!!

    The new Ultima model, The Ultima RS, will cost circa £130k as a factory build, will set you back about £90-100k as a basic kit (depending on engine spec) and they have a 3 year waiting list for factory build cars. I think if you want a kit you should be about 12 months. Within a week or so of the public release of the RS they had 40 orders from all over the world (to be fair, the weak exchange rate is helping them) so it shows that there are enough dafties out there ready to hand over a fair chunk of dosh for a bespoke "kit / component" car.

    When I say "£130k" I bet most folk are saying, "golly, that's a lot". But I doubt anyone looking to buy one would be bothered if it was £140k or £120k.

    Second hand values of Ultimas are in a really good place. I said earlier that when I look at Stratos Replica asking prices I always think they are lower than I might have expected. Perhaps because I have an LB being built at the moment that's just wishful thinking from me but I'm not really doing mine to lose money. The second hand asking prices for Ultimas is really strong. There's never many for sale and there are always more folk wanting to buy one than there are cars for sale. I've never seen a "bargain" car being sold. Assuming you can afford it the quantum of money isn't really the issue. For Ultimas the barrier to entry isn't really the cost but whether you want a totally impractical, uncomfortable, compromised, selfish, road-legal track car or not. Good second hand earlier non-RS cars like mine at £60k/£70k/£80k (the engine fitted tends to determine the rough price bracket) can change hands without being advertised.

    IMHO the Stratos replicas are on an even higher level. There's a history to the originals, the difference in cost between a replica and an original is such that they're not in the same ballpark. There's so much more to wanting a Stratos replica than simply wanting a fast car. However, anyone who sells at their asking price can't really complain.

    ... and breathe

    Jim

  3. #23
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    Re: Chairman's Rant - October 2019

    Re Valuations - Great if we can find a way to do it - at least we could have a register of sale values and dates and pictures to support members in agreed value discussions?
    Re Club Purpose - some combination of Social, Technical Support and re-manufactured parts in differing orders depending on my mood.

    Drive outs are great if you have a finished car and are reasonably local but I don't think id go hundreds of miles for one. Was a member of a couple of other car type clubs and both had well attended annual rallies and one had a set of local meets but both had more active members than we do. As Tim has said we have a local meet going in Suffolk / North Essex which 3/4 of get to every other month or so for some lunch and a natter - seems to work for us and came together through this forum.... I guess its up to people to try things.

    Peter

  4. #24
    SEC Member Neil63's Avatar
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    Re: Chairman's Rant - October 2019

    “why is a mouse when it spins"
    Norm you got me with that one so had to look it up. “The higher the fewer”. Nonsense (jokes on me/ individual) or relates to counter weight on steam engines is the best I can find.
    I guess sums up everything about banter, learning, joint interests etc.
    Keep up the good work.

    Cheers
    Neil (oh and looking forward to Sat)
    Last edited by Neil63; 27-09-2019 at 06:55.

  5. #25
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    Re: Chairman's Rant - October 2019

    Some good stuff being posted on all this, so Ta to all who've replied so far!

    Peter - it may be that the best we can do regarding valuations is just have a spreadsheet on here, in the publicly-accessible part, with a car's main features (year, manufacturer, motor, LHD/RHD, body & dash style, wheels, etc. etc.) so people can make up their own minds how much to ask when selling, or how much to pay if buying. Might also help with insurance agreed values? As regarding inspections, having seen the responses/spoken to a few people, that idea might well be consigned to the Pit of Despond, i.e. the bin. It seems that people are being dazzled by cars and turn up looking ofr reasons to buy, rather than the other way round...oh well, at least the sales of rose-tinted specs must be on the up

    You don't need a Strat to go on a drive-out, in fact on the Northern Run this year, if that'd been a condition of entry the whole thing woulda been cancelled There doesn't seem to be any appetite for one-day ones though, tried that, zero entries. So I organise a hotel for a two-night stopover, so people CAN make it from wherever they happen to live. And then it's not just the drive-out, it's the two nights of having a laugh, etc. which is great.
    Area meets are again a great idea, if you've got a few peeps who're reasonably close together. Up to individuals to sort that out tho!

    Jim - interesting stuff regarding Ultimas...I know they're high-end and proper stuff (ex-Lee Noble, aren't they, and used by Gordon Murray as mules when he was developing the McLaren F1) so I get why they hold their values. Interesting point about Stratos reps being perhaps even more desirable because of the heritage of their inspiration car, and so potentially being worth even more - hadn't thought of that. I think with "our" cars having been around for 30+ years, there's still a tendency for us to think of them as "merely" kit cars, and not the high-end items that some of them really are, which is how the Great Unwashed out there seem to be viewing them now.

    Neil - correct answer, but you had to ask a friend (Google?), so nil points I first heard that one at school in a latin lesson...that's aged me, eh! See ya tomoz!

  6. #26
    SEC Member renmure's Avatar
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    Re: Chairman's Rant - October 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Normb666 View Post
    Jim - interesting stuff regarding Ultimas...I know they're high-end and proper stuff (ex-Lee Noble, aren't they, and used by Gordon Murray as mules when he was developing the McLaren F1) so I get why they hold their values. Interesting point about Stratos reps being perhaps even more desirable because of the heritage of their inspiration car, and so potentially being worth even more - hadn't thought of that. I think with "our" cars having been around for 30+ years, there's still a tendency for us to think of them as "merely" kit cars, and not the high-end items that some of them really are, which is how the Great Unwashed out there seem to be viewing them now.
    The thing is tho Norm, that with Ultimas the secret is that it's all perceived value. It costs a lot for the kit because... err... the factory charges a lot for the kit. A factory build car costs an even bigger lot because... the factory charge a lot more to build it. They hold their values well as 2nd hand cars because.. err.. they cost a lot to buy and that in itself supports the value of 2nd hand cars. It doesn't matter what the new cost is at the moment because... there's enough folk wanting to order one than there are folk deciding it's too long to wait or it's too expensive.

    To relate it back to Stratos replicas, perhaps the best thing that could happen on the 2nd hand market for current owners would be if they stopped making new ones or whacked the price up by £10k or more for new kits. My bold prediction is that the 1st LB listed in the classifieds of Pistonheads or the like at over £70k will have cost less than that to buy**

    ** won't be mine. I intend keeping it for a while but if £55/60k is becoming the new norm for what's out there at the moment then it's not a great leap to guess where the latest ones will end up when the time comes, albeit they will have cost a bit more to start with.

    All IMHO of course

  7. #27
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    Re: Chairman's Rant - October 2019

    What can I say, other than "what you said"

    Basically, the market's changed. And so have I - clean socks! - cos I'm off down to Gordon's in a few mins!

  8. #28
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    Re: Chairman's Rant - October 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Normb666 View Post
    - clean socks! - cos I'm off down to Gordon's in a few mins!
    Thank gawd for that!
    See yas all there!

  9. #29
    SEC Member ChrisCar6's Avatar
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    Re: Chairman's Rant - October 2019

    I suspect we don't get any turn-key purchasers coming here, it seems mainly a builders-and-tinkerers community. Do we come across as boiler-suits and put the 3-piece suits off?

    Track days didn't exist back in the early days, and car shows were the main way to see other cars and get ideas/solutions, so we went to them. Now t'internet and this website in particular shrinks the timescales and provides good visual archives to consult when stuck. So in the flesh, we tend to be local car club active than SEC active?

    Over the years we have evolved from the donor & scrapyard hobbyists to a much more professional approach, both the manufacturers as well as the builders. There is also, as I think has been mentioned, the fact its a nearly 50 year old car, and those who remember them in their competitive heyday are also, err, maturing, so the client base will also be changing.

    The standard of builds and skills of builders appears to be changing - part of this is of course the access to tools and equipment that were unavailable to hobbyists in the past - many builders have MIG/TIGs, compressors, power tools, lifts, even 3-D printers - much more than the lump hammer, mole wrench and screwdriver that used to be our toolkit, not to mention the move from lock-up to manshed. What a difference even LED lights and headtorches have made!
    It's going to be interesting to see how we manage the change to electric cars; long may we evade the need for airbags and complex electronics that make the IVA a walk in the park.

  10. #30
    SEC Member Stradale493's Avatar
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    Re: Chairman's Rant - October 2019

    I was a "turn-key purchaser" but down to lack of free time, not lack of ability (professional mechanical engineer in aerospace and defence industry) so I really enjoy reading the technical discussion.
    I wanted a driveable car I could modify and tinker with rather than a pile of bits that would sit in my garage for 5 or more years without turning a wheel. My workshop is pretty well equipped - lathe, vertical miller, 3D-printer etc. I wear a suit to work, but not 3 piece. Hopefully when I start ramping down my work hours I'll be able to get me and my car to more events.

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