Chairman's Rant - October 2019

**Normb666** · 27-09-2019, 08:45

Some good stuff being posted on all this, so Ta to all who've replied so far!

Peter - it may be that the best we can do regarding valuations is just have a spreadsheet on here, in the publicly-accessible part, with a car's main features (year, manufacturer, motor, LHD/RHD, body & dash style, wheels, etc. etc.) so people can make up their own minds how much to ask when selling, or how much to pay if buying. Might also help with insurance agreed values? As regarding inspections, having seen the responses/spoken to a few people, that idea might well be consigned to the Pit of Despond, i.e. the bin. It seems that people are being dazzled by cars and turn up looking ofr reasons to buy, rather than the other way round...oh well, at least the sales of rose-tinted specs must be on the up

You don't need a Strat to go on a drive-out, in fact on the Northern Run this year, if that'd been a condition of entry the whole thing woulda been cancelled

There doesn't seem to be any appetite for one-day ones though, tried that, zero entries. So I organise a hotel for a two-night stopover, so people CAN make it from wherever they happen to live. And then it's not just the drive-out, it's the two nights of having a laugh, etc. which is great.
Area meets are again a great idea, if you've got a few peeps who're reasonably close together. Up to individuals to sort that out tho!

Jim - interesting stuff regarding Ultimas...I know they're high-end and proper stuff (ex-Lee Noble, aren't they, and used by Gordon Murray as mules when he was developing the McLaren F1) so I get why they hold their values. Interesting point about Stratos reps being perhaps even more desirable because of the heritage of their inspiration car, and so potentially being worth even more - hadn't thought of that. I think with "our" cars having been around for 30+ years, there's still a tendency for us to think of them as "merely" kit cars, and not the high-end items that some of them really are, which is how the Great Unwashed out there seem to be viewing them now.

Neil - correct answer, but you had to ask a friend (Google?), so nil points

I first heard that one at school in a latin lesson...that's aged me, eh! See ya tomoz!

**renmure** · 27-09-2019, 20:45

Originally Posted by Normb666

Jim - interesting stuff regarding Ultimas...I know they're high-end and proper stuff (ex-Lee Noble, aren't they, and used by Gordon Murray as mules when he was developing the McLaren F1) so I get why they hold their values. Interesting point about Stratos reps being perhaps even more desirable because of the heritage of their inspiration car, and so potentially being worth even more - hadn't thought of that. I think with "our" cars having been around for 30+ years, there's still a tendency for us to think of them as "merely" kit cars, and not the high-end items that some of them really are, which is how the Great Unwashed out there seem to be viewing them now.

The thing is tho Norm, that with Ultimas the secret is that it's all perceived value. It costs a lot for the kit because... err... the factory charges a lot for the kit. A factory build car costs an even bigger lot because... the factory charge a lot more to build it. They hold their values well as 2nd hand cars because.. err.. they cost a lot to buy and that in itself supports the value of 2nd hand cars. It doesn't matter what the new cost is at the moment because... there's enough folk wanting to order one than there are folk deciding it's too long to wait or it's too expensive.

To relate it back to Stratos replicas, perhaps the best thing that could happen on the 2nd hand market for current owners would be if they stopped making new ones or whacked the price up by £10k or more for new kits. My bold prediction is that the 1st LB listed in the classifieds of Pistonheads or the like at over £70k will have cost less than that to buy**

** won't be mine. I intend keeping it for a while but if £55/60k is becoming the new norm for what's out there at the moment then it's not a great leap to guess where the latest ones will end up when the time comes, albeit they will have cost a bit more to start with.

All IMHO of course

**Normb666** · 28-09-2019, 10:43

What can I say, other than "what you said"

Basically, the market's changed. And so have I - clean socks! - cos I'm off down to Gordon's in a few mins!

**john** · 28-09-2019, 10:52

Originally Posted by Normb666

- clean socks! - cos I'm off down to Gordon's in a few mins!

Thank gawd for that!
See yas all there!

**ChrisCar6** · 03-10-2019, 21:17

I suspect we don't get any turn-key purchasers coming here, it seems mainly a builders-and-tinkerers community. Do we come across as boiler-suits and put the 3-piece suits off?

Track days didn't exist back in the early days, and car shows were the main way to see other cars and get ideas/solutions, so we went to them. Now t'internet and this website in particular shrinks the timescales and provides good visual archives to consult when stuck. So in the flesh, we tend to be local car club active than SEC active?

Over the years we have evolved from the donor & scrapyard hobbyists to a much more professional approach, both the manufacturers as well as the builders. There is also, as I think has been mentioned, the fact its a nearly 50 year old car, and those who remember them in their competitive heyday are also, err, maturing, so the client base will also be changing.

The standard of builds and skills of builders appears to be changing - part of this is of course the access to tools and equipment that were unavailable to hobbyists in the past - many builders have MIG/TIGs, compressors, power tools, lifts, even 3-D printers - much more than the lump hammer, mole wrench and screwdriver that used to be our toolkit, not to mention the move from lock-up to manshed. What a difference even LED lights and headtorches have made!
It's going to be interesting to see how we manage the change to electric cars; long may we evade the need for airbags and complex electronics that make the IVA a walk in the park.

**Stradale493** · 03-10-2019, 23:03

I was a "turn-key purchaser" but down to lack of free time, not lack of ability (professional mechanical engineer in aerospace and defence industry) so I really enjoy reading the technical discussion.
I wanted a driveable car I could modify and tinker with rather than a pile of bits that would sit in my garage for 5 or more years without turning a wheel. My workshop is pretty well equipped - lathe, vertical miller, 3D-printer etc. I wear a suit to work, but not 3 piece. Hopefully when I start ramping down my work hours I'll be able to get me and my car to more events.

**Normb666** · 03-10-2019, 23:07

Think you're right, Chris, the turnkey-ers and those buying 2nd-hand aren't coming here. Funny really, cos you can bet a goodly number will have joined TIPEC or Porsche Club GB when they bought their 911s!

I don't think it's anything related to image - I think they simply don't know about us! Face it, as a club, we're tiny. Lancia Motor Club's got 4.5K members, we've got about 150. Think I'm gonna start going to events with an opened SEC umbrella to try and raise awareness, even if it's not raining

However. Further to how we're perceived by Those Out There, I received a message last week from someone about this very thing, and it made for very uncomfortable reading, cos we didn't come out well in it. I'm still ruminating about how to address the issue he raised and present it to the members...I think it's gonna warrant a separate topic, so watch out for it soon...

**renmure** · 03-10-2019, 23:25

Oi... I'm a turnkey-er.
Infact, you don't really get much less "tinkering in a shed" than moi.

Building your own car is a geeky thing. There's only so many geeks to go round. I think you can get a bit anal about why folk are here or not. I just come on to follow the build threads and look at the pictures and see if it inspires any thoughts about mine. It's worked well for me in that regard. Thanks to Norm I've decided to put carpet in my garage.

**Lancialulu** · 05-10-2019, 07:53

Originally Posted by Normb666

Think you're right, Chris, the turnkey-ers and those buying 2nd-hand aren't coming here. Funny really, cos you can bet a goodly number will have joined TIPEC or Porsche Club GB when they bought their 911s!

I don't think it's anything related to image - I think they simply don't know about us! Face it, as a club, we're tiny. Lancia Motor Club's got 4.5K members, we've got about 150. Think I'm gonna start going to events with an opened SEC umbrella to try and raise awareness, even if it's not raining

However. Further to how we're perceived by Those Out There, I received a message last week from someone about this very thing, and it made for very uncomfortable reading, cos we didn't come out well in it. I'm still ruminating about how to address the issue he raised and present it to the members...I think it's gonna warrant a separate topic, so watch out for it soon...

Correction: Lancia Motor Club has (only) 1250 members and is still the biggest Lancia Club in the world.