To return for a moment to Jaguar (JLR), according to Companies's House, it is a private company, a wholly owned subsidiary of TATA Motors Ltd, an Indian Company. I rest my case, and Jim, you've let it out of the box, now we know how the boys toys appear, mind you I don't envy the -20 at the moment.
Last edited by Longtimefan; 11-02-2021 at 23:36.
Maybe jlr or whoever 'owns' them should tread carefully, did jaguar not rip off the Disco Volante for their overrated e type thing back in the late fifties? ... glass houses and all that.
Norm is correct, absolute disgrace to say the least.
Whichever country JLR are now affiliated with, the point is they're still thought of as British and they play heavily on that. So that's the thing to look at.
As for "design", yeah, that's what I was inferring in my earlier post. Who can say what that is? It's like trying to define what a classic car is, or what makes someone cool (although you just have to look at me, I suppose, as I open myself up for hilarious comments galore). It's that very vagueness that means a different court/magistrate/whatever could find the complete opposite and why an appeal could well succeed. Although if you cut the crap, that also means law and facts and bits of paper count for sod-all, as it's down to whoever's on the bench and which side of the bed they got out of that day, i.e. no matter how much you've paid for representation, it's blind luck
I'm wondering why JLR went for a Swedish C-type replica owner when there are plenty here in the UK - are they testing the water in a smaller country first before trying their luck in other countries - as in UK and elsewhere in EU ?
If this is perceived as a genuine threat to replica car owners then strength lies in numbers - and having exchanged E:mails with Adam Wilkins at Complete Kit Car I know that they will be featuring this issue in the the next edition. Once a legal precedent is set every major manufacturer could "at a stroke" seriously damage the replica industry - and who is to say that a minor body profile change will be sufficient to avoid the challenge without having to go to law to prove it?
A friend on Facebook posted the official Jaguar response to the legal case, see below.
JAGUAR TELLS THE OTHER SIDE OF ITS C-TYPE REPLICA LAW SUIT - IT IS NOT GOING AFTER ENTHUSIASTS AND OWNERS
I have been working with help Doug Nye in England to spread the word here about JLR's efforts to successfully prosecute a couple in Sweden for building a replica C-Type.
We have never had a reaction on our Facebook page like we have had to that posting yesterday - not by a very long way.
HOWEVER
There are two sides to every story, so Doug contacted Tracey Pink at the Jaguar PR Department and got this very informative reply. It is just a pity the company had not issued it when this entire thing blew up. It might have stopped a lot of the anger which has been brewing.
"Despite assertions in the Creare News Release, Jaguar Land Rover is not going after private owners of pre-existing individual replica vehicles, nor insisting upon the destruction of their vehicles. However, we will take action to enforce our rights against businesses using our IP illegally for their own profit. The defendants in this case had started a business to build and sell six Jaguar C-type replicas for over Euros 250 thousand each. Action to protect our IP has been very much aimed at the commercial replica manufacturers, people aiming to build and sell replicas as a business infringing our copyright and trademarks.
"Jaguar Land Rover did not undertake this case lightly and, before resorting to legal action, gave the defendants ample opportunity to stop copying our design.
"Jaguar Land Rover is disappointed that it had to resort to commencing legal proceedings and only began the lawsuit nine months after we asked Creare to stop their plans to make money from our copyright.
"Jaguar Land Rover continuously tried to avoid litigation, but Creare would not accept any realistic compromise.
Jaguar Land Rover take whatever action is needed to protect our IP.
"A plethora of copies of varying quality risk collectors and customers of the original being misled as to what they are buying. Our own vehicles are sold with clear provenance and title."
STATEMENT ON ENQUIRY
“We at Jaguar Land Rover take very seriously the protection of our Intellectual Property (IP) and reserve the right to protect our IP from businesses that infringe it.
The Swedish court’s decision in our favour confirms that we were correct to take this case. According to the Swedish court, the external shape of the Jaguar C-type does have copyright protection, and this was infringed by a car being built by the defendants’ company, the first of six that they planned to build and sell.
Jaguar Land Rover are not going after private owners of pre-existing individual replica vehicles, nor insisting upon the destruction of their vehicles. However, we will take action to prevent businesses using our IP illegally for their own profit.
The ruling established that, in terms of copyright, the creative choice and originality when designing a vehicle can be comparable to that for other works such as statues, paintings or music.
Jaguar Land Rover is committed to the preservation and heritage of our brands and classic iconic designs, establishing Jaguar Land Rover Classic in 2017. Dedicated to the production and maintenance of historic models as well as the manufacture of new parts, Jaguar Land Rover Classic ensure that enthusiasts can enjoy our vehicles long into the future.”
- so it's not us owners/builders who need to be afraid - it's the likes of Hawk and LB !! The risk to the replica industry remains - if other manufacturers such as Fiat and Ford wish to follow the same route.
Well, both have already been leaned on by BMW and Lister. (respectively)Originally Posted by Stratos Fear
Last edited by ProtoTipo; 12-02-2021 at 16:45.
That statement by JLR still doesn't answer all the questions though. JLR management actively helped some of the "replica" companies by supplying factory drawings etc. and even used replicas in some of their promotional material and at events, I've read. But now they turn on these same people, citing "intellectual property"? And it's not just Creare, but also Suffolk Sportscars who they've leaned on. All this "ensuring enthusiasts can enjoy our vehicles long into the future" is cobblers, as it's the enthusiasts they're hitting! What they should really be saying is that they're ensuring that only the moneyed elite can enjoy their vehicles, because no-one else can afford them. Going after replica manufacturers means the regular enthusiasts won't be able to have a "new" car, unless JLR believe all enthusiasts can simply knock up a D-Type in their garage?
Do they really think Creare or Suffolk were rivals compared to their own continuation cars? Even at £250K they're about 6 or 7 times cheaper than Jaguar's will be....and actually, where does this leave a firm such as Lynx, or Proteus, who produce some of the best replicas and which are renowned and respected within the classic community for such?
If the court thinks an old car can be compared to a painting or statue, then replicas must be OK, as there are countless copies of the Mona Lisa and that oriental woman with the blue face you always used to see
Oh, and what about free market forces? If there's a demand for an old car, and the original maker stopped doing it yonks back, surely all a replica maker is doing is satisfying that demand and giving the public what they want? If the original manufacturer wants a piece of the action, all they have to do is inspect the replica to make sure it's good enough and then take a royalty payment. In that way everyone's even happier - replica company knows they're OK, original firm is happy they're not being brought into disrepute by a substandard product, buyer's chuffed cos the car's got a degree of authenticity. Just so long as it's not actually called a Jaguar C-Type or whatever. But that's probaly too sensible and grown-up when you can throw your toys outta the pram and make a lot of noise about "intellectual property" that you'd actually abandoned 60-odd years ago....
Last edited by Normb666; 12-02-2021 at 17:33.
Just one other thing: I could maybe stomach this sorta thing if JLR had got all out of shape years ago, when "replicas" of their cars first started being produced. But now, nearly 40 years later? No, sorry, too late to the party. If they want to also do replicas/continuations, join the mob and make the best rep. Don't act like you just read that fable of Aesop's about a dog in a manger!
Two sides to every story, like they say.
Maybe it's a good job Lancia have gone out of business!
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks