Litton Corse

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Originally Posted by Longtimefan

So tell us what cars you may have for sale, so that we can have a think?

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If asking me - That's all perfectly clear above.

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Originally Posted by john

Andrew,
The 12 valve Busso will go in the four pot cradle with minor mods. I remember that Dave Watson managed to drop a 24v in, but had to alter the rear frame of the cradle rearward slightly.
For the 12v it was engine mounts ( obviously), and re-position bracing in the rear frame to accommodate the rear bank headers.
Someone had ( badly) repositioned the diagonal tube which comes up from the side pontoon to the top strut mount, but I got it back more or less where it should have been during a general tidy up of chassis.
Sorry, long winded reply as usual.
The answer is yes, more or less!

"I" chassis is of course very different and was specific to the engine being installed. Your Honda engine chassis being better than the Alfa variety in my opinion.
Steve Ellis adapted his Honda engined chassis to accept the MG/Rover V6, but an Alfa would have been unviable.

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I knew that the "I" chassis were quite engine specific - It may be true that some of the Honda "I" chassis may have been better but mine was certainly not - I also had it in mind that the "S" also differed 4 pot to 6 pot to a point where major mods were required - clearly incorrectly - then again what we consider quite minor mods are well beyond others capabilities.

Likewise your "There's a profit to be made in Steve's car even at £20k." depends on what is seen as the final value for the car and how much you are paying for the work to be done and what a profit is - spending £20K on a £20K car to have a possible £45K outcome . I best get back to it - and so should you ;)

Another example of a Corse fitted with LB coffin spokes:

My Corse I has Image coffin spokes supplied and sorted by Craig.
Craig sorted the details as I had no idea what i was doing.
Steve
Attachment 18182

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Originally Posted by ProtoTipo

Another example of a Corse fitted with LB coffin spokes:

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And an LB body if I recall

To fit to 4 studs there is a bit of work re-drilling hubs etc.

I think both of those cars are also Corse "i" Alfa engined with the what I will call 1/2 deep dish rear LB coffin spokes - I think the "S" can have the full dish version and with the Honda "i" cradle you need a 3/4 dish which do not exist - Poss custom machined flat deep spoke type from NTM in Italy or fit spacers for the 1/2 dish.

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Originally Posted by Darkspeed

I think the "S" can have the full dish version

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Yes that's right Andrew. 'Like the deep dish wheel on the Alitalia Corse S in the photo from John D. at post #35 earlier on this thread.
However, I think the "1/2 deep dish" wheels, (as you call them), do look good on the Corse 'I' versions. 'Better than the modern wheels that were often fitted to the Corse I's in the past.

I was lucky enough to get a set of Mels 5 stud front hubs. He had had a batch made some time before. The rears will convert using standard Alfa hubs. Craig gave me details.
As I recall he also offered a version of his own coffin spokes to suit Corse I variants. Probably what Steve shows on his car above.

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Originally Posted by john

I was lucky enough to get a set of Mels 5 stud front hubs.

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Are they for your Allora John, with Fiat front uprights?

Oh no Chris, sorry, I meant for Frederics car when I did the 5 stud conversion. Don't think he has any left these days.
I think the Allora will be staying 4 stud.

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Originally Posted by john

Oh no Chris, sorry, I meant for Frederics car when I did the 5 stud conversion. Don't think he has any left these days.
I think the Allora will be staying 4 stud.

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I see?
I didn't know the Corse S used Fiat 132 front stub axles.

Yes, but without the extension piece.

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Originally Posted by john

Yes, but without the extension piece.

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Is the 'I' the same, or different at the front? Considering this type of wheel offset:

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Originally Posted by ProtoTipo

Is the 'I' the same, or different at the front? Considering this type of wheel offset:

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The I has cast alloy uprights front and rear, the ones which were developed by STATUS (Manchester Uni).
These used Ford Granada Scorpio bearings and flanges which were 5 x 112 PCD
Both S & I chassis used a 38mm offset wheel from memory

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Originally Posted by Strat Fan

The I has cast alloy uprights front and rear, the ones which were developed by STATUS (Manchester Uni).
These used Ford Granada Scorpio bearings and flanges which were 5 x 112 PCD
Both S & I chassis used a 38mm offset wheel from memory

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Thanks Craig,
So a Corse S uses Fiat front uprights, but doesn't use the same type of offset wheel as (most) Hawks?

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Originally Posted by ProtoTipo

Thanks Craig,
So a Corse S uses Fiat front uprights, but doesn't use the same type of offset wheel as (most) Hawks?

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Correct and I do understand the logic behind it.
Way back in 1988 or so coffin spoke wheels weren't available so without those around to dictate the geometry then Mr Greenwood opted for a wheel offset which reduced the kingpin offset to a more sensible level.
As many will know chassis design/stiffness and suspension geometry were more of a priority for Litton than out and out replication was.
Employing this increased wheel offset also then meant that the suspension could be mounted further out and a much wider footwell could be built into the car.
Fast forward into the late '90's or 00's and the club group buy for coffin spoke wheels changed the game slightly.
Hawk owners could then fit the coffin spokes and make their cars look much more authentic where the Corse owners were left behind a little and didn't have the option for a more authentic looking wheel.

That's interesting. I always thought the look of the wheels on Littons kind of ruined the effect...the wrong style - they always looked too modern - and no inset to talk of. And yes, Steve was more about performance and maximising the chassis stiffness than making a perfect replica, which he'd need to do with Litton's rallying exploits.

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Originally Posted by Normb666

- and no inset to talk of.

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An example of that:

Exactly. Looks great - apart from the modern wheels! (with no inset!)

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Originally Posted by Strat Fan

......Both S & I chassis used a 38mm offset wheel from memory

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What wheel rim width was that based on an 8"? - I would have to look at mine to double check but from memory they are 17 x 8 ET 40 and the rears are 17 x8 ET 20 sitting on 25mm spacers ( -5) -

I think the LB square arch is wider than the Hawk round arch that was on the chassis as I have it mind I calculated that I could get away with 10" ET Zero at the rear will have to revisit it again soon but I do like the look of the flat spoke rears


https://media.istockphoto.com/photos...5030?s=612x612

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Originally Posted by Darkspeed

What wheel rim width was that based on an 8"? - I would have to look at mine to double check but from memory they are 17 x 8 ET 40 and the rears are 17 x8 ET 20 sitting on 25mm spacers ( -5) -

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I'm fairly sure that the Litton and the CAE ran 7" front and 8" rear as standard in both S and I guises. 15" in the Litton S days and 16" in the CAE I days

Hi,

My 1993 Corse I began with 7 x 15 Front and 8 x 15 Rear and now uses 7 x 16 and 8 x 16 (ex Arthur/Turbonutter), kept the 15 inch ones for track days tyres.
The rears have zero offset and the fronts have 35 mm offset plus a 6 mm spacer.

The build manual from the early 1990's recommended 7 x 15 and 8 x 15 with zero offset rear and 40 mm offset front.

rgds Bob

Ok, out at final price of 23k for sale out there, if it doesn't sell it stays. Think your right Norm about ebay auctions

Good luck with it Ste....although I suspect you'll still be happy if it doesn't sell ;)

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Originally Posted by Normb666

Good luck with it Ste....although I suspect you'll still be happy if it doesn't sell ;)

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Too right Norm

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Originally Posted by john

The Litton Corse S ( like Steves) can make a nice car with diligent effort, and some expense of course.
I know the ballpark figure thst this car sold for some years ago. And I know very well what it cost to do and how long it took.
There's a profit to be made in Steve's car even at £20k.

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For sure with diligent effort some expenses and skills you can make a nice car with an old Corse S :rolleyes: (below the original car few years ago before your works)

Thank you John for posting this nice photo in Perigord during one of our great and memorable adventures!! :cool:

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Originally Posted by Stratie.fr

For sure with diligent effort some expenses and skills you can make a nice car with an old Corse S :rolleyes: (below the original car few years ago before your works)

Thank you John for posting this nice photo in Perigord during one of our great and memorable adventures!! :cool:

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Now that you've posted this latest photo, Frederic, it broke a memory, since I remember test-driving this very car sometime during the late '90s, down in South Staffordshire. It was a mixed experience overall, or (as they used to say in England) "Like the curate's egg, good in parts".

I do remember it as being nicely-built (by the standards of the time) which makes sense since the owner/builder was a professional model-maker and so equipped with the kinds of skills still relevant for this type of project. (Although those white, twin-boom door mirrors were a real aberration...).

It drove OK, and the agile turn-in was great (short wheelbase, of course) but unfortunately the 2.0 Lampredi twin-cam fitted didn't exactly deliver on the big cheque signed by that jaw-dropping 'Alitalia' bodywork. If I can unearth the 1990s advert for it, Frederic, I'll happily send a copy over, but yours & John's years of hard work on it since have certainly wrought some terrific improvements to the original car as I viewed it.

This advert?:

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Originally Posted by ProtoTipo

This advert?:

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Err... no, Chris. That was certainly the same car but with a completely different photo, and it doesn't read at all like the advert I remember answering, on that Wolverhampton-coded number shown.

Particularly since "£10,000" was the asking price by then, if I remember things a'right... and, yes, it was road-legal, possessing an SVA & MoT.

(But 'no', I wouldn't have bought it at either price; although its better aspects certainly helped to inspire my next project then following).

Fredric, that was Milton's car wasn't it?

Robin

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Originally Posted by Longtimefan

Fredric, that was Milton's car wasn't it?

Robin

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It was Milton Hollands car. There was a large black painted 'MH' on the underside of the bootlid when I removed the trim!
Interesting information Clive.
Not sure where it had been between you seeing it and Frederic purchasing it, but it had been fitted with an Alfa 12v.
Not particularly well fitted it has to be said. I still have the 'fabricated' engine mounts in a box marked 'Exhibit A', but they had to be replaced, along with most of the other work carried out under Napiersport banner.

Right Robin and Clive you well recognize this Corse S ex Milton Holland I bought at Mapple Leaf garage in Daventry more a decade ago .

After some tribulations with Napiersport John helped me to find the car lost somewhere in Yorkshire and he made a fantastic job for converting and improving it in Gp 4, but the 12v engine refurbished twice still had some overheating issues ... I finally sold the car almost a misery...but such a great memories though!!:rolleyes:

Sold, Deposit now taken, pending collection

Well done Steve.
You held put for the right result.
Sold to a man with a 6R4?

Good news, Ste. Now you can get on with your house stuff, and hopefully get back in a Strat at a future date!

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Originally Posted by john

Well done Steve.
You held put for the right result.
Sold to a man with a 6R4?

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not sure if he has a 6R4 but has quite a substantial garage over in italy

Not the guy I was thinking of then.

Well, gone to its new home down south, left today on the back of a flat bed, different way to pick up cars i suppose

New owner Marc has already joined so expect a post very soon, sure you lot will help out, I'm still about for the mean timeAttachment 18449

Glad you're still here or we'd be stuffed for a webmaster as well as the others....!

Bit sad to see it go? Never mind, you can always get another sometime. Unless you spend all the dosh on wine, wimmin and song, which is probably better than buying a Strat rep anyway :)

I bet causes a few posts on social media as if trundles South!

Now THAT’S a flatbed!!